mike101

As far as many of us are concerned, you're the one who can't give out the current percentage itself. So why insist for us to come up with a number when we don't even know what the current one is right now? If Low coach and biz award tickets account for less than one percent, I would suggest raising that to at least 20% of all award tickets. But apparently I was just told by Delta.com customer support team over email (see related thread) that award tickets are extremely limited and they may open up at the last minute. Putting the pieces of the puzzle together, obviously they would want to do this, because if they open tickets at the last minute, most customers would have to pay a $150 redemption fee.

avidflyer

Yes and IF they could sell them then you would have a point but they can't. So, they can let them go empty OR they can make something on the miles that it takes for an award. Nothing....or....something. Yes I think the right "business" move is to go with the nothing.

RealHJ

This is here just "off the top of my head" what I think "would be nice & fair."

But honestly as I said, different on every route and aircraft, based on historical averages: of X days out Y seats will sell, so Z seats will go unsold. Just release the seats that Delta knows - based on its historical sales for that particular flight at that time of the year on that specific aircraft - that it will not sell by the departure date.

Simply put: only release into low awards (both BE and coach) the seats that Delta knows will be never sold. Financial impact of doing that: 0 (value of a SkyMile booked such a flight then: $0.00 - which is what I am sure Delta aspires them to be worth). The logic: Delta FTs can book award seats only where those seats would have went unsold and have netted Delta zero revenue.

What I gave is just a sample of what I think would be that for some/average routes, but I may be off. But the intent was this, as stated above.

(Of course for this to work, should be some minimums to be always available. Not to downgrade say a 747 to 767 that will be nearly 100% full sold and thus no award seats, ever. But to be fair also maximums, i.e. not changing a CRJ into 747 to sell all the 98% excess seats as low awards. So still needs good common sense and ethics, fairness to work. But so easily can, with just some slight reballancing bringing Delta 0 financial impact (no loss of revenues), yet happier customers - and ultimately thus higher revenues through increased loyalty.)

avidflyer

Thanks for that RealHJ and it was a thoughtful post but I think you were being baited. The answer would have been "but they are in business to make a profit" no matter what you would have posted. Of course that is BS because they cannot sell all those seats or they WOULD.

longing4piedmont

No you want a seat and I understand that. Also understand that is easier to Avoid a very simple question rather than answer the question.

So let me ask it a different way in two parts.....

How many birds does DL fly everyday to PVG from any originating city? (I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not mind connecting)

How may total seats is that a day and how many of them should be made available for low awards?

RealHJ

...and keep in mind that a SkyPeso is worth $0.0054 (reportedly, that's what DL sells it to for to "partners"). So if DL sells it for $0.0054, and someones uses say 70,000 miles for a low BE award to Asia, but that seat would have went unsold (netted Delta zero revenue), Delta ends up collecting $378 where otherwise it would get nothing. (This of course doesn't work so in real time, ZimMiles are bought first by "partners," then give to their customers, then redeemed...but all that flow simplified down, that's how it is. And presumably if SkyPiles are worth less then less will be taken by customers and bought by vendors. So then why not give a BE seat for $378 in partner price of SkyMiles vs have it fly empty?)

*SkyPeso, ZimMile, SkyPile, SkyMile all refer to what is called by Delta a SkyMile but is colloquially known by a number of other names; here just some of the names for "SkyMiles" were used

DP-340

I agree...

longing4piedmont

On this we agree....

In the industry that I work in, I'm going to estimate that most trips to Asia are booked within two to three weeks of the actual trip. Booking in advance just does not save that much money. I'm will also guess that 25% of the flights are booked within a week of travel.

Spot checking multiple dates to PVG in the next three weeks, almost all of the flights were booked at 75% or more. That is why I disagree with such a high percentage of availability for any level or award travel out more than a month or so. Doesn't make me right or you wrong. I just don't see the math working out in DL's favor giving away that many seats, that early. The difference could be $70K to $150K a flight in revenue.

FalconStng

I have to refute the Asia award availability. Within in the last month I flew RT from Houston to Shanghai, booked it within a month of departure and got it in business class for 100k RT. It was the trip of a lifetime for me and Delta made it possible. Now that's coming from a Long Long time NWA PE and someone who hated the merger so much that I refused to fly Delta or though any of Delta's original hubs. I was flying the day they ended my worldperks card and to this day I still force my flights though DTW, MSP, or MEM. The biggest problem for me is I hate change. Really all of my Delta experiences have been great. I've booked 2 awards this year, both at low level and I experienced great phone help and great service everywhere I've been with them

pbd456

i suppose CO, UA and AA sells their miles to their partner at a much higher price. Therefore, whenever there is a fare between A and B for $x on both DL and CO (for example). between one earns the similar miles on both airlines.
if the $ is the same, DL is pricing their air fare higher after subtracting the cost of the miles.

hence, DL is more expensive to fly than others. I think this is the end of story.

GBadger

That seems like a lot for 25% of an airplane. Maybe I'm off, but even if it's 25% of a 744 (403 people, if I remember correctly), that would be~ $700-1500 per seat. If it's 25% of a 763ER (216 seats), that would be~ $1300-2800
per seat.

Roundtrip TPAC for $1400, I can believe so the low end of that range for the 744 is a reasonable estimate. But how do you get $150k? That would require the average ticket price on a 744 to be $3000, and the average ticket price on a 763ER to be $5555.

If an average ticket price on the 763 was $2000, it'd be $54k...If the average was closer to $1500, it'd be $40k.

RealHJ

Then can you answer this: how do most people (non PRC residents, given the PVG example) get a visa that quickly? As usually people get the flights and then the visa (for some country visas in fact need to show the flight tickets first when applying).

Same for the other direction: how do most non-US citizens get a US visa that quickly (if, e.g., coming from PVG and need it)? And remember that non-US citizens, even coming from EU, need to apply I think 72 hours before flight departure for the electronic US visit authorization, that needs the flight specifics - which rules out very last moment flight purchases.

(Some, like me, will get a flight for PVG (did this once YVR-PVG direct (AC) for $450 CAD return including 4* hotel for 4 nights deal on expedia) leaving in two days one evening, apply for the Visa in the local consulate the next morning and pick up the passport with the visa on the way to the airport the next morning, as the flight departs some two hours after the consulate opens. But, most people are not like me and wouldn't do it quite like this last minute and take the risk. This example also shows that for int'l flights last minute prices are less, esp. to places like China that need a visa.)

GBadger

Did you book this on nwa.com, delta.com or neither?

longing4piedmont

I was using BE only tickets to PVG for the next month as that was my understanding of the issue....no award seats in BE. PVG and HKG were both mentioned as zero award seats. Cheapest ticket I saw was just under 7K. Average appeared to be over 10K

Bikeguy

Even 1% would be a significant improvement.

I'd even be excited to see decent domestic awards.

When I needed to get to LA, DTW-LAX was available for 25K if I was willing to double connect, and I get treated special, because I'm a Gold. Lucky me.

The direct flight was like $149. I was checking just to see if there was anything in award.

Moral of story. Delta knew it had plenty of seats, it just refused to let them go on low award.