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-   -   Delta denies boarding based on fuzzy visa info (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1059274-delta-denies-boarding-based-fuzzy-visa-info.html)

mikew99 Mar 6, 2010 12:10 pm


Originally Posted by indogulf (Post 13522524)
1. Delta was correct in denying you boarding based on your original documentation. As I mentioned in an earlier post an actual eticket is the only acceptable proof of travel. And the OP has subsequently admitted to not having this information at check in.

2. If you have an eticket for onward travel within 30 days of arrival you should not be denied boarding. It does not matter on what airline you are traveling out of Thailand.

So, was DL still correct in denying boarding after the OP offered to buy a ticket out of Thailand?


Originally Posted by JetSet78 (Post 13524002)
I think it's pretty clear. DL was not wrong (and I am no apologist).

Had an ongoing e-ticket or some other tangible form of onward journey been presented, the OP would be on their way to Asia as originally planned.

Interesting, because it's equally clear to me that DL was indeed wrong to deny boarding! Remember, the OP was denied boarding based on not having a visa for a stay of 30+ days, not because he didn't have proof of outbound travel (which the OP was more than willing to provide).

TJPACIFIC Mar 6, 2010 12:47 pm

Some low cost airlines at BKK like Air Asia, Jet star, do not provide e-tickets number. Is the itinarary and ticket recipt good enough?

jjglaze77 Mar 6, 2010 12:51 pm

Glad to hear things are progressing! Let us know once you are in Thailand if you had any further issue. As has been said, you could have prepared slightly more, but this whole ordeal is DL's problem not yours. Despite what some people in this thread have said (they are either not trusting you or can't read), you should have been accommodated!

brenkarch Mar 6, 2010 1:21 pm

Another update: For a bunch of personal and financial reasons my friend and I have decided to scrap the SE Asia trip. Our 2nd option all along was Central America, so now we're planning a (somewhat shorter) trip there. I know, it seems like such a waste to give up now, but there's a lot of personal background stuff I'd rather not get into. We were also still unsure if we would be able to get IDB compensation to cover the difference in ticket prices and lost hotel reservation, etc. Anyway, I'm disappointed, but trying to look forward now to Central America. Trust me, I need a vacation! Besides, Thailand isn't going anywhere.

I want to thank everyone here for their practical help. I realize there is still the unresolved issue of DL's policy. I am still hoping for three things from DL: 1) an apology, 2) some IDB compensation, and 3) a clarification of policy. I have written to some exec people, so I will let you know how they respond. I'm sure some other people on this site might be relieved to get an official statement from DL that it isn't their policy to deny boarding to any 30+ day R/T to Thailand.

I'll try to keep you updated.

waltinsocal Mar 6, 2010 1:22 pm


Originally Posted by BigFlyer (Post 13523287)
I don't see that there is any rule that one must have an onward ticket (i.e., there is a maximum stay, but you can buy a bus ticket out.) . Some countries, e.g, the US, have such a specific requirement, others which don't have that requirement For example, here's Timatic on the specific onward ticket requirement for people entering the US under the visa waiver program:

is holding onward/return tickets (or electronic ticket
record or return passages) with a final destination to a
country other than Canada, Mexico or contiguous (adjacent)
countries/islands situated in or bordering the Caribbean
Sea, TIRULES/R36 unless passenger holds proof of
residence in or is transiting to such country/island, in
which case onward/return tickets to that country accepted.

Did you read the link from the Thai Consulate I posted in post 101? Do you see where it says you need onward tickets within 30 days? How much clearer does it need to be?

jjglaze77 Mar 6, 2010 2:18 pm


Originally Posted by waltinsocal (Post 13524367)
Did you read the link from the Thai Consulate I posted in post 101? Do you see where it says you need onward tickets within 30 days? How much clearer does it need to be?

Wow...

DaDaDan Mar 6, 2010 2:25 pm


Originally Posted by waltinsocal (Post 13524367)
Did you read the link from the Thai Consulate I posted in post 101? Do you see where it says you need onward tickets within 30 days? How much clearer does it need to be?

Did you read the multiple times where the OP said he was happy to purchase just such a ticket and Delta said it didn't matter? How much clearer does it need to be?

waltinsocal Mar 6, 2010 2:50 pm


Originally Posted by DaDaDan (Post 13524620)
Did you read the multiple times where the OP said he was happy to purchase just such a ticket and Delta said it didn't matter? How much clearer does it need to be?

I agree he should have been allowed to purchase an outbound ticket within the 30 day period, and the DL TA in Gainesville should have then used common sense, boarded him and sent him on to Atlanta. I also think that no matter what the Agent said, he still should have bought the outbound ticket and escalated. He would have in a stronger position to get someone further up the food chain to okay his travel.

SDF_Traveler Mar 6, 2010 4:57 pm

The DL agent in GNV screwed up royally, IMHO. Sounds like the DL agent I encountered 6 years ago who didn't know what an Australian ETA was. She tried to deny me boarding after she couldn't find the "ETA Visa" in my passport.

This is before DL started service to Australia and I was traveling on a NW issued award on the lines of DL/CO/NW/MH. MH was the carrier who delivered me to/from Australia.

It took a supervisor to fix up the mess from the first agent and check me in.

It is common for travelers to visit a region of the world, take SE Asia in this case, to purchase an international ticket and to fly into a base city, BKK being a popular choice.

From BKK travelers not only spend time visiting Thailand, but also visit adjacent nations. Not all travelers go via air either and border crossings are done via the ground. No e-tickets for ground crossings, eh?

Some travelers buy onward air travel via travel agents with cash or via LCC's after arrival.

FWIW, I've purchased 1 year tix departing from major intl airports that would have "overstayed", but at major airports like LAX carriers are used to this.

I don't know about others, but I have entered nations which allow a 30 day max without visa and have traveled over the road into adjacent nations, only to return to my point of origin on my INTL ticket to return to the US. Had I checked in with this agent in GNV, I would have been denied boarding based on his strict interruption.

When it comes to border crossings, not everyone wishes to fly between nations when traveling in a region with multiple counties. There are a lot of beautiful cities, superb food, interesting people, cultures, and landscape I would have missed out on if all my border crossings were by air.

DL was wrong, period, with respect to the denied boarding of the OP.

If the OP had been checking in at a major international airport with competent agents who understand the true nature of international travel, I bet the OP would be in Thailand by now having an enjoyable stay.

The OP's itinerary is a walk in the park compared to others I've seen which have involved BKK, and Thai Immigration likewise have dealt with (without problem, I must add).

Who operates the DL station at GNV?

yyliu88 Mar 6, 2010 5:08 pm

as a person who is holding a passport that needs VISA for almost every countries on earth! I can say DL is wrong!!

FiveMileFinal Mar 6, 2010 7:57 pm


Originally Posted by brenkarch (Post 13524362)
Another update: For a bunch of personal and financial reasons my friend and I have decided to scrap the SE Asia trip. Our 2nd option all along was Central America, so now we're planning a (somewhat shorter) trip there. I know, it seems like such a waste to give up now, but there's a lot of personal background stuff I'd rather not get into. We were also still unsure if we would be able to get IDB compensation to cover the difference in ticket prices and lost hotel reservation, etc. Anyway, I'm disappointed, but trying to look forward now to Central America. Trust me, I need a vacation! Besides, Thailand isn't going anywhere.

I want to thank everyone here for their practical help. I realize there is still the unresolved issue of DL's policy. I am still hoping for three things from DL: 1) an apology, 2) some IDB compensation, and 3) a clarification of policy. I have written to some exec people, so I will let you know how they respond. I'm sure some other people on this site might be relieved to get an official statement from DL that it isn't their policy to deny boarding to any 30+ day R/T to Thailand.

I'll try to keep you updated.

Wow. You're going to miss Thailand because of Delta Air Lines? Seriously? :(

Prepare to have a sore posterior, because you're going to be kicking yourself.

But that alone is enough to ensure that I'll never find myself on a Delta plane again. I'd hope it'd be the same for you, too, even if you have to pay a little more on another airline.

Is it possible you could postpone your trip a few weeks? For the heck of it, I did a comparison for trips two weeks out with a return in early May and there's only about $150 AI difference between Delta and, say, United, who at least acts like they have experience in Asia.

In whose alternate reality is a purchased ticket out of Thailand before the visa-waiver expiry date not enough? And if this is such a hard, fast rule, why wasn't this flag raised during the ticketing process?

waltinsocal Mar 6, 2010 10:33 pm


Originally Posted by FiveMileFinal (Post 13526133)
Wow. You're going to miss Thailand because of Delta Air Lines? Seriously? :(

Prepare to have a sore posterior, because you're going to be kicking yourself.

But that alone is enough to ensure that I'll never find myself on a Delta plane again. I'd hope it'd be the same for you, too, even if you have to pay a little more on another airline.

Is it possible you could postpone your trip a few weeks? For the heck of it, I did a comparison for trips two weeks out with a return in early May and there's only about $150 AI difference between Delta and, say, United, who at least acts like they have experience in Asia

In whose alternate reality is a purchased ticket out of Thailand before the visa-waiver expiry date not enough? And if this is such a hard, fast rule, why wasn't this flag raised during the ticketing process?

I agree with you about the ticketing process. The website should have never allowed the OP to book a 45 day ticket without a warning flag coming up. But, the OP never possessed a purchased onward ticket out of Thailand to cover the potential problem. I have flown internationally as much, if not more, than most people here. I go to the departure airport over-documented and ready for a fight. I have never been denied boarding.

SDF_Traveler Mar 7, 2010 12:13 am


Originally Posted by waltinsocal (Post 13526711)
I agree with you about the ticketing process. The website should have never allowed the OP to book a 45 day ticket without a warning flag coming up. But, the OP never possessed a purchased onward ticket out of Thailand to cover the potential problem. I have flown internationally as much, if not more, than most people here. I go to the departure airport over-documented and ready for a fight. I have never been denied boarding.

The OP was ready to buy a ticket, on the spot, with his phone. The check-in agents answer was still NO per OP.

At that point he should have been checked-in.

I've purchased tix longer than time permitted in a country and have never had a problem. I always document everything and carry onward ticket receipts. Last time I had a one-year ticket the airline and immigration never asked to see my onward transport, but I had it.

When I do have problems at check-in it is often agents having trouble interlining checked luggage like SDF-ATL-LAX-ICN-KUL-MEL (DL/KE/MH) or SDF-ATL-BOS-AMS-BUD (DL/NW/MA).

Edit to Add: Aside from the DL agent at SDF who wouldn't check me in to MEL because she couldn't find an "ETA Visa" in my passport, I've been asked for Visa's on other occasions when not required or purchase on arrival.

SDF_Traveler Mar 7, 2010 1:06 am


Originally Posted by waltinsocal (Post 13527023)
I feel sorry for you if you travel internationally by the seat of your pants. If you do, you will be posting here soon asking for our help.

Not going to touch the other parts of your post, but, have you ever gone abroad with an open schedule?

It is nice being able to travel without a set schedule. Aside from having your guidebooks, etc., just have the Intl flight and first few nights set in stone. Then start off to see a country or a region with multiple countries. As you travel you meet other travelers, share experiences (good hotels/hostels, first hand info on must see's/do's, places off beaten path), and let these experiences from other travelers help guide you with respect to where to go next.

When I travel without a schedule, when I find a city/town/village I like and want to explore more, I stay longer in that area. If I get to a destination and find it not what I expected or not to my liking, I move onto the next city.

I might decide to jump to another region of a nation or a neighboring country for a change of pace. I purchase the air ticket, train ticket or arrange ground-transport when I'm ready. I might spend a week or two and then decide to fly to other region/country/city/island.

The majority of my travel is planned. However, I sometimes do set out on a trip without firm plans aside from the international ticket to/from home (USA) and the first few nights of lodging.

In some countries it is possible to get cheap airline tickets the day before or the day of travel. In some cases it is possible to get an airpass before you leave and book your flights when you want, as long as there are seats on the plane.

Is that what you mean by 'travel internationally by the seat of your pants'?

If this is traveling internationally by the seat of my pants, it is something I've done and will do again. It isn't for everyone, but makes for some of the most rewarding travel, IMHO.

Sam Drucker Mar 7, 2010 1:28 am

Did notes in the PNR play a role in DL's repeated denials?
 
I've read through this thread with interest, because I currently live in Thailand, and the situation the OP experienced could have happened to me in the past.

The thought occurred to me that there were probably notes put into the PNR at Gainesville when the passengers were denied boarding. The OP may have been experiencing a bureaucracy where every subsequent person at DL he talked to looked at the PNR, read the original notes, and was afraid to make a judgment call and reverse the original decision.

Possible?


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