When will it stop?
 

We are now several months into the transition from NW to DL and several months into the merge of the FT boards. As a former NW Plat who loved NW airlines and more importantly (relative FlyerTalk) the Worldperks program I was immediately expecting the worst from DL, both the Airline and the FF program. I dove in very early on by going out of my way to fly DL starting in Sept figuring I ought to get to know what I am in for. I realized pretty quickly a few things and I think these things are pretty much universal across the former NW population here and are expressed in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-nw-flyer.html

To summarize:

-DL has a good..no great domestic product. I have flown all of the airlines and can honestly say that the service, AVOD, General AC appearance, and food are all as good or even much better than NW had to offer

-My upgrade % has stayed exactly the same as a Plat (100%) and I will be DM for the next 2 years. I am confident that upgrades will continue to be as generous on DL as they were on NW.

-The free Skyclub membership is really a savings for me. I have been a WC member for 8 years and happily paid out the ($150??) fee every year so this is a hard savings for me.

-In-flight service and ground staff are all comparable IMO.

The issues I have are ONLY with 3 things but they are important:

-International Upgradeable fares are too high and need to get competitive or I may honestly have no choice but to split my domestic and INT travel across a few carriers.

-The website is just horrible. The award calendar does not work and the revenue engine is spotty at best.

-Low award availability is extremely tough to come by.

We can ALL agree on these points I am sure. They are legitimate issues and legitimate compliments. Anybody who likes high upgradable fares, a lack of award availability, and an award booking engine that does not work at all should probably just be quiet and hope it stays that way. I for one do want DL to know what the need to do to keep our business.


I am asking all of the folks here on the FT board to drop the references to "Ex NW Filers" and "DL apologist" and just deal with the subjects being discussed. At this point, if we are still here, we are NOW all DL flyer's and that is all that should matter. To the Legacy DL posters, yes, there is a bunch of complaining that you have not had until now but that is because you now have a population of FF program members with different expectations for the FF program and the IT ease of use we had with NW. The complaining is obviously going to happen here….it IS the DL Board.

The vast majority of people here whether DL or NW agree that DL has some issues with the website, high upgradeable fares, and low award availability. These are not NW specific issues they impact everyone here and we should look at them that way. It may be that there are a ton of threads that are repetitive and I understand the frustration with that but it does not have to be about who started the thread. We can all help with housekeeping by flagging our Mods with the "report this post" button to help consolidate. There is no need to continue to say (with eyes rolled) “not ANOTHER POST about X!” . If you REALLY are sick of the repetitive posts then do something about it without minimizing the posters problem. Let’s not make it about the people reporting the issue but about the issue.

It would be nice if there were as many positive posts about SM and there are some, but it is human nature to spout off when you have a problem and not so much for the reverse. As long as the readers and posters here focus on the issue (or just ignore it if you are bored) and not the posters or what airline they used to fly, this discussion board will continue to be a valuable resource. Again, I think the vast majority of people here have got off the "Us/them" bandwagon. We should all call out the people who are making these comments on both sides and keep the momentum going in the right direction on this board. There are several posts today in another thread to that read something to the effect of "NW= Sucks". Where are the DL regulars to call out that behaviour? I will jump in and say something (and have) when somebody from the NW board slams DL for something I have not experienced. We need to take control of this...it is up to us to put a stop to the bickering and, frankly, lazy posts that accomplish nothing but bad vibes.

And here I thought this thread was based on a rhetorical question ("when will it stop?"). Thought you might be referring to your 100% upgrade success.

Hopefully that never stops!

-RM

^^
+1000

I was actually thinking this EXACT same thing on my way home last night...

If we really want DL to address the problems that we encounter (and lets face it, we all find some along the way), we need to present a united front.

I will start by saying that I'm happy to be a DL Platinum Medallion (I even changed my info on the left to reflect this...).

As avidflyer said: Please do your part by discussing the issues, and not who's making the statement.

Also, let's try to refrain from saying "On NWA it was always like this", unless people are asking for specific examples of where it was/is different.

KLM FB Elites - upgrade
 

If I may, one more factual difference that is negative is that the FB Elites are not considered for upgrades anymore, and I am sure we cannot use the SkyLounge, which were 2 of the biggest perks when flying domestic in the US.

Does anyone know if there are plans to change this?

When did it start?
 

The better question is when did it start? The answer is long before the merger was announced. One of the things I noticed when searching older threads was the tone, tenor and lack of civility. Things may have ratcheted up a bit in the last year, but the undercurrent has always been here. I don't have a lot of hope it will get better. The best I can do is disagree without being disagreeable.

Just because you have not experienced it does not mean that it's not a serious problem for others.

Otherwise I agree with your post, though I might add:

- Reduce schedule changes and preserve seating when making changes.

- Fix inconsistent elite C/S

But perhaps most of all, gain some integrity, have your product match your rhetoric, and take pride in what you offer to your customers. For example, if you cannot do seat assignments on KL then say so and tell customers how they can do them. Do not put up a false and incorrect seat map and give customers a placebo seat that KL (or whatever partner carrier) never even sees. If you're re-opening a skyclub you closed a few months ago, say so, don't imply that you're adding a new one.

Few will argue that the website is good. I hope Delta knows this...

INT upgrades... if it is too easy, then availability would become more of an issue for hi rev folks, but I am with you in the spirit of the comment..

Rewards search engine? I know I have joked about this, but why is this so important to a biz traveller? How many free trips do you actually book? I do not get it. I never use the thing...I call and always get good help. SUre it is poor, but that works to the advantage of those who are willing to spend a little time... I assure you of this... furthermore, it is free travel and a very small part of one's flying experience... it just seems like there are so many other things I'd like Delta to focus on... or better yet, things that Delta sees as a priority for making my biz trips more pleasant...

Great post. I don't disagree with any of your comparisons on the strengths/weaknesses that DL has.

Great post avidflyer...agree 100% with all your points.

The web site is OK for many things, but not for showing awards.
NW was better for storing companion profiles.
I have not yet figured out how on DL.
My upgrades are certainly useful, and the attention due to Wx recently helps (was in LAX over weekend and could not get back on Sun).

Int upgrades are an important part. When your company pays only economy or books discount economy, it is good to have an option of upgrade that you have earned through your loyalty, like on AA.

Even though awards are only a small part of my flying experience, when I book these, it is for family and friends and for vacation times. I spend MY time on these. If I am going on work in C, the flying is a chore that I have to deal with for my job. One should never mix quantity for quality.

I agree with your post. My biggest challenge has been rather simple trying to figure out if something is a merger issue that will/ can be fixed or is a new policy. I think that shows up on the board a lot, along with the misinformation from Delta employees trying to keep up with the changes. Hopefully it will settle down in another couple of months.

But this has nothing to do with DL, it is more about the terrible situation AF/KL has gotten themselves into. Why should DL do this? What is the incentive for them? I think they'll rather try to work something out with AS instead.
Don't get me wrong, I have always enjoyed the NW-KL relationship while I was with KL and later FB, but this has really been a thing of the past which they tried to kill a few times. I still remember when they cancelled our lounge access and a few os us were denied entry ... it took a ton of complaining from many folks on this board to get this back. Now they have the prefect excuse to eliminate something they never wanted in the first place.

100% agree. NW was not the end all be all. I think everything else is largely a wash...some good, some bad. If DL would just address these items I can't think of anything general that I would whine about. Most of the other little hassles are random and not systematic (in my experience).

...and about how often I actually book award travel. If I am practically living on an airplane for work, you sure as hell can bet I don't want to spend hours trying to book a nice trip for my family when I finally get some flight time to myself. It IS a BIG DEAL to MANY business travelers.

avidflyer, I love your OP. I'll make a concerted effort to do my part. I get defensive sometimes because I just don't buy the milk-n-honey memory on BOTH sides of the pre-merger world.

Here are a few ways we can all present a united front and stop bickering amongst ourselves.

1) If you see a signature for a member that is negative start IGNORING them by adding them to your ignore list. Don't quote them.... don't defend any position you have that they have slammed... don't give them the satisfaction. If someone's signature is neutral then respond however you like.

2) If you have a signature that is negative be prepared to be invisible. Change it or be shunned.

3) For God's sake STOP with the "best in class" comments. It's old. It's not original. It's not witty. It's just plain tired. It is a marketing slogan. Avis: "We Try Harder".... Do people really expect this to be a truism? Flintstone Vitamins: "10 million strong and growing". Growing? really? that was the slogan 20 years ago. Is anyone keeping count? It's a Madison Avenue marketing slogan and NOT to be taken literally, absolutely, or to the bank. Even if DL did become "best in class" others would have to follow because then there would be one program deemed best. Best for whom? "Best" is a subjective word most of the time (example of a quantifiable "best" would be the best time for a race in the Olympics). The advertising world loves to play on subjective emotions. Don't let them win. Ignore it. Don't be susceptible to a sound bite.

I'll commit to letting the past be the past and move forward together as ONE group in an effort to address the three issues avidflyer so succinctly mentioned in his OP.

You , my friend, are one of the folks who offered the olive branch early and in-fact helped to assimilate many of the NW FT'ers here on this board.. I agree 100% on the snide remarks from the NW side...I will call them out when I see them on both sides, you have my word on that. Hopefully we can boil the issues down to the few (granted there are variations of the few) that are so important to most SM members and do so as DL Customers not some dysfunctional kids whining to their dysfunctional parents about the brother/sister. :) Anyone who is really fed up is gone or going...I fly a LOT and will be with DL for quite some time if even just on my Domestic routes. I think anyone left here really does want the DL program to work for them and would not be here if they did not see all the good that DL does bring to the party. We can all help that mission by staying focused and keeping it about the issues.