Kill rollover now
Nov 30, 2009, 4:15 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
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Posts: 13,316
So the real issue is:
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
Nov 30, 2009, 4:35 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
So, not only did the rollover MQM's make some people decide to stop short of attaining DM, but it is also making some people, once they reach DM, fly other airlines.
This rollover MQM feature might rank right up there with "new Coke" as the biggest marketing blunder. But I will play the game while it lasts.
This rollover MQM feature might rank right up there with "new Coke" as the biggest marketing blunder. But I will play the game while it lasts.
So the real issue is:
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
Nov 30, 2009, 5:06 pm
#48
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ATL/LAX
Programs: Delta Diamond 2MM, AA EXP
Posts: 703
I started the post before I went out today and was surprised at all the response.
As stated I support DL and love the service I get 99% of the time so this is not a bi*ch session from me. My only argument re Rollover is that finally a top, "best in class" tier arrives and with it comes a diluting effect, large or small depending on your point of view. because of my schedule I have to fly DL but on occasion I can fly another airline but I almost always choose DL out of loyalty and desire to see DL succeed.
I know I am in a small minority with 250K+ but it would have been nice to really been taken care of. I'm not even that unhappy about the SWU's as I am happy to pay $2700 for a M class to SYD, and get a flat bed, I used to pay 10k+.
I'll probably do 300k+ next year and probably 100% on DL.
Not sure how the DM ranks will look like but we will know soon.
As stated I support DL and love the service I get 99% of the time so this is not a bi*ch session from me. My only argument re Rollover is that finally a top, "best in class" tier arrives and with it comes a diluting effect, large or small depending on your point of view. because of my schedule I have to fly DL but on occasion I can fly another airline but I almost always choose DL out of loyalty and desire to see DL succeed.
I know I am in a small minority with 250K+ but it would have been nice to really been taken care of. I'm not even that unhappy about the SWU's as I am happy to pay $2700 for a M class to SYD, and get a flat bed, I used to pay 10k+.
I'll probably do 300k+ next year and probably 100% on DL.
Not sure how the DM ranks will look like but we will know soon.
Last edited by dean1121; Nov 30, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Nov 30, 2009, 6:40 pm
#49
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
So the real issue is:
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
Would you pay 50k MQM's for the following:
1. 1 year SC membership
2. Better UG position (assuming you believe that will be an issue next year..many do not as they will be plats and still in good shape)
3. 25% more Bonus miles (31,250 miles on 125k)
If the answer is yes then you should cross the line, easy decision...done. If the answer is no then you must fly another carrier to avoid crossing. It is the last sentence that is nuts about this part of the LOYALTY program. I am laughing as I type this. Surely anyone can see how ridiculous this is?
There is also a more strategic approach that is harder to quantify: Is one year of DM better than 2 or 3 years of Plat..that is also driving decisions with some FF'ers.
- I already have SC with the AMEX card
- I agree it will be an issue on elite heavy routes like LAX-ATL, but I plan to use my 4 PMUs on K-fares on those few occasions.
- This only applies after Spring 2010. BTW, I cannot use all my miles! In the last 3 years my inlaws have used them more than my wife and I!!!
It may be ridiculous for you, but not for me.
Last edited by DP-340; Nov 30, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Nov 30, 2009, 6:46 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
In my case:
It may be ridiculous for you, but not for me.
- I already have SC with the AMEX card
- I agree it will be an issue on elite heavy routes like LAX-ATL, but I plan to use my 4 PMUs on K-fares on those few occasions.
- I cannot use all my miles! In the last 3 years my inlaws have used them more than my wife and I!!!
It may be ridiculous for you, but not for me.
Nov 30, 2009, 6:50 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
It is not ridiculous to me...I am saying it is ridiculous that DL would put people in this position (re-read my post). I agree 100% with you. What am I doing wrong in my posts? I feel like I am in the bizarro world episode from Seinfeld. People keep reading the exact opposite of what I am saying! I tried to answer a question up thread thinking I was helping the poster understand something and the poster slammed me for it! As I always say: no good deed goes unpunished.
Nov 30, 2009, 7:53 pm
#52
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
Programs: DL PM/MM, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia, National ECE, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,579
I fully understand the argument why you don't want to reach DM ... I don't think most Delta PM's think the same way, they'd rather take the status now because they're likely to earn at least enough for PM next year anyway without the rollever, but I undestand it. I asked this before, and now someone else is fully agreeing with it, and this is nonsense in my mind:
How does rollover encourage those who have already earned DM to fly other airlines?
Nov 30, 2009, 8:06 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
I fully understand the argument why you don't want to reach DM ... I don't think most Delta PM's think the same way, they'd rather take the status now because they're likely to earn at least enough for PM next year anyway without the rollever, but I undestand it. I asked this before, and now someone else is fully agreeing with it, and this is nonsense in my mind:How does rollover encourage those who have already earned DM to fly other airlines?
Looking through this thread and the comments that were made, I do think that far more non-FT PM's think the way I do re: stopping short of PM. Two years of PM is definitely better than one year of DM.
Nov 30, 2009, 8:18 pm
#54
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL PM, Jersey Mike's Sub Club
Posts: 85
So I'm just a little confused by the general consensus here...
1. Elite ranks are inflated, upgrade % are getting worse and will only get horrible with rollover
2. But, you are all going to hold short of DM...
I understand the appeal of the 50K MQMs, but are you really going to sacrifice a good % of your upgrades for that 50K? What happens when you fly another 125K MQMs worth of travel? Are you going to stop after 75K, and start taking inconvenient connections or fly your second choice airline?
This argument makes sense if you hardly fly domestic, but I seriously doubt that is the case with most on this board.
If most PMs are really going to hold short every year, then I consider that great news as it will keep the DM ranks low and virtually guarantee that I will be cleared every flight at 5 days out.
Thanks everyone!^
1. Elite ranks are inflated, upgrade % are getting worse and will only get horrible with rollover
2. But, you are all going to hold short of DM...
I understand the appeal of the 50K MQMs, but are you really going to sacrifice a good % of your upgrades for that 50K? What happens when you fly another 125K MQMs worth of travel? Are you going to stop after 75K, and start taking inconvenient connections or fly your second choice airline?
This argument makes sense if you hardly fly domestic, but I seriously doubt that is the case with most on this board.
If most PMs are really going to hold short every year, then I consider that great news as it will keep the DM ranks low and virtually guarantee that I will be cleared every flight at 5 days out.
Thanks everyone!^
Nov 30, 2009, 8:23 pm
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
So I'm just a little confused by the general consensus here...
1. Elite ranks are inflated, upgrade % are getting worse and will only get horrible with rollover
2. But, you are all going to hold short of DM...
I understand the appeal of the 50K MQMs, but are you really going to sacrifice a good % of your upgrades for that 50K? What happens when you fly another 125K MQMs worth of travel? Are you going to stop after 75K, and start taking inconvenient connections or fly your second choice airline?
This argument makes sense if you hardly fly domestic, but I seriously doubt that is the case with most on this board.
If most PMs are really going to hold short every year, then I consider that great news as it will keep the DM ranks low and virtually guarantee that I will be cleared every flight at 5 days out.
Thanks everyone!^
1. Elite ranks are inflated, upgrade % are getting worse and will only get horrible with rollover
2. But, you are all going to hold short of DM...
I understand the appeal of the 50K MQMs, but are you really going to sacrifice a good % of your upgrades for that 50K? What happens when you fly another 125K MQMs worth of travel? Are you going to stop after 75K, and start taking inconvenient connections or fly your second choice airline?
This argument makes sense if you hardly fly domestic, but I seriously doubt that is the case with most on this board.
If most PMs are really going to hold short every year, then I consider that great news as it will keep the DM ranks low and virtually guarantee that I will be cleared every flight at 5 days out.
Thanks everyone!^
BTW, I dont think anyone is talking about holding short every year..just until they can get DM and NOT go down to Gold the following year. If you assume DL will do this roll-over thing next year as it is today (I don't) then you could "bank 100k MQM's over 2 years and get DM while assuring you don't fall to Gold. That is another way to play it.
Nov 30, 2009, 8:45 pm
#56
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL PM, Jersey Mike's Sub Club
Posts: 85
You are missing the point. If you hold short now and plan to travel a lot next year you will get DM NEXT year and it will be good for all of next year and the following year. If you do not think you will be traveling a lot next year then by holding short you will get 2 years of Plat instead of one year of DM. Additionally, the UG % for Plats will likely not be impacted much at all. Gold and Silver will get annihilated by DM (In my opinion) but Plat should be fine. So with all that said if you are going to fly a lot next year why would you NOT hold short and get 2 years of DM instead of one? We should be thanking you.
BTW, I dont think anyone is talking about holding short every year..just until they can get DM and NOT go down to Gold the following year. If you assume DL will do this roll-over thing next year as it is today (I don't) then you could "bank 100k MQM's over 2 years and get DM while assuring you don't fall to Gold. That is another way to play it.
BTW, I dont think anyone is talking about holding short every year..just until they can get DM and NOT go down to Gold the following year. If you assume DL will do this roll-over thing next year as it is today (I don't) then you could "bank 100k MQM's over 2 years and get DM while assuring you don't fall to Gold. That is another way to play it.
Nov 30, 2009, 9:13 pm
#57
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Highland PArk,IL,USA -- AA Lifetime Platinum, IHG Plat, UA Silver, Hilton Gold, Radisson Gold, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 2,366
That isn't my point, nor is it Beckles. I don't doubt that someone might hold short to get a head start next year. What I don't understand is how the incentive structure has dramatically changed compared to last year. If I fly 125k + per year, I have always had the choice to just hit hit Plat and then move on elsewhere for either better pricing, better schedule, or simply for another status. There was never really much incentive to fly DL past 75k, other than to leverage the benefits (upgrades, lounge access, priority boarding, etc) you earned for being Plat. Yeah, NW had SWUs, but even that was meager compared to the competition - were people really falling all over themselves to fly 125k miles to get 1/3 of the SWUs they got with UA?
With rollover, what has changed? With DM, what has changed? Who has ever argued that there is no reason to hold short of any status? I don't object to questions about whether one should or shouldn't hold short. What I object to is casting the assertion that there is now significantly more incentive to hold short than there was before as fact and that this is somehow a great failure of marketing.
The only way I see it really changing the dynamic would be for those folks that see a big drop-off year-over-year. Even then, though, I'm not sure it dramatically changes the incentive structure from simply having soft landings.
With rollover, what has changed? With DM, what has changed? Who has ever argued that there is no reason to hold short of any status? I don't object to questions about whether one should or shouldn't hold short. What I object to is casting the assertion that there is now significantly more incentive to hold short than there was before as fact and that this is somehow a great failure of marketing.
The only way I see it really changing the dynamic would be for those folks that see a big drop-off year-over-year. Even then, though, I'm not sure it dramatically changes the incentive structure from simply having soft landings.
DL actually loses money for my way of travel. NW and DL's free upgrade system for domestic is why many people stick with them. If GM and PM have a difficult time getting free upgrades DL will be in a real big hurt. Noone in their right mind would stick around since they make is so difficult to get an award or upgrade on fun vacation trips overseas.
Look what they have done with their lounges and food in FC on almost any domestic flight; what about so many RJ close to 1000 miles, makes them less and less desirable. Even the Amex option is weak; most people already had one from work of memebership rewards. Why pay for a DL branded Amex when Starwood is free, if someone really cares to have another Amex card.
Nov 30, 2009, 9:16 pm
#58
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SLC
Programs: DL-DM
Posts: 82
This is an interesting thread and I appreciate all the different perspectives. When I started reading the posts, I was amazed because I will end the year around 115K miles. Most of that is biz miles with the exception of 10K amex and the extra MQM incentive this summer. My flight patterns haven't changed to enhance or limit my status for 2010 and quite honestly I felt like few PMs, outside of this forum would give it much thought. However, one poster mentioned the hilton rollover status and it reminded me that I did the same thing as he for about 3 years. As soon as I hit Hilton Diamond, I stopped staying at Hilton and worked on Hyatt status. Granted, hotels are a little different than airlines in that it only means staying at a hotel close to where I would have stayed with Hilton. But, changing airlines, outside of multi-hub cities (JFK, ORD or LAX) means connections galore. I do connections when I have to because of big cost differences, but otherwise I have no interest in adding 1-4 hours to my trips just to get status on another airline. Would FFs really commit to the extra travel time (connections) in order to get status on another airline?
Nov 30, 2009, 9:42 pm
#59
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
You are missing the point. If you hold short now and plan to travel a lot next year you will get DM NEXT year and it will be good for all of next year and the following year. If you do not think you will be traveling a lot next year then by holding short you will get 2 years of Plat instead of one year of DM. Additionally, the UG % for Plats will likely not be impacted much at all. Gold and Silver will get annihilated by DM (In my opinion) but Plat should be fine. So with all that said if you are going to fly a lot next year why would you NOT hold short and get 2 years of DM instead of one? We should be thanking you.
BTW, I dont think anyone is talking about holding short every year..just until they can get DM and NOT go down to Gold the following year. If you assume DL will do this roll-over thing next year as it is today (I don't) then you could "bank 100k MQM's over 2 years and get DM while assuring you don't fall to Gold. That is another way to play it.
BTW, I dont think anyone is talking about holding short every year..just until they can get DM and NOT go down to Gold the following year. If you assume DL will do this roll-over thing next year as it is today (I don't) then you could "bank 100k MQM's over 2 years and get DM while assuring you don't fall to Gold. That is another way to play it.
Nov 30, 2009, 10:06 pm
#60
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,691
I am one of those who reached DM and then went to test the waters since there wasn't anything interesting enough to keep me on DL for the rrst of the year. I am sitting at just over135K and feel I can easily make PLT and probably DM next year.
For the past couple of months I have been doing the US fastest to preferred challenge. I will be CP on US next year due to this sacrifice.
Had DL spuced things up for DM and above I probably would not have been tempted. The CP status on US and the status match from CO will come in handy next year as I decide what program is best for me.
For the past couple of months I have been doing the US fastest to preferred challenge. I will be CP on US next year due to this sacrifice.
Had DL spuced things up for DM and above I probably would not have been tempted. The CP status on US and the status match from CO will come in handy next year as I decide what program is best for me.