MSP gate agent and missed flight - opinions please!!
Oct 29, 2009, 1:08 pm
#61
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,907
Not true! Not if the passenger presented to the boarding area 5-10 minutes prior to departure time!
Oct 29, 2009, 1:31 pm
#62
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
When I did such a connection last, SDF-MEM was wx delayed and I was re-routed via DTW to AMS.
DL has sold me a domestic to international connection at CVG with only 35 minutes back when CVG-FCO was operated n/s.
In this case, I ended up catching an earlier flight to CVG -- but it turned out they had held the aircraft for other pax on the later SDF flight.
I don't know if the domestic to Intl MCT's have changed since then at MEM or CVG, but the MCT and the CoC provide almost no room for error if followed to the letter.
Oct 29, 2009, 1:32 pm
#63
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: TPA or In Flight
Programs: DL PM, 1MM
Posts: 671
Opening the door means that the GA has to communicate somehow with the ramp crew who will then communicate with the pilots. Then the pilots have to communicate with the FAs to disarm the evacuation slides, and prepare to open the boarding door. It is not just a simple "open the door."
GA to RAMP: Uh, guys, can you stop picking through the luggage and let the pilots know I need to open the door.
RAMP to PILOTS: Captain, can you put down your computer and turn off your iPOD for a second, the GA needs to talk to you.
PILOTS to GA: Hello? Hello? Is there anyone there?
:-)
-=tg=-
Oct 29, 2009, 1:59 pm
#64
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,884
(Source: http://www.nwa.com/plan/guide08.html Question #1)
So a 35-40 minute connection would still be "legal", but it would be cutting it close. I would not recommend that tight of a connection for most travelers, and if you did book it, you would have to understand the risks of wx/mx/atc/other delays with such a short connection.
Oct 29, 2009, 3:24 pm
#65
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
The MCT at MEM for Dom->Intl is 30 min.
(Source: http://www.nwa.com/plan/guide08.html Question #1)
So a 35-40 minute connection would still be "legal", but it would be cutting it close. I would not recommend that tight of a connection for most travelers, and if you did book it, you would have to understand the risks of wx/mx/atc/other delays with such a short connection.
(Source: http://www.nwa.com/plan/guide08.html Question #1)
So a 35-40 minute connection would still be "legal", but it would be cutting it close. I would not recommend that tight of a connection for most travelers, and if you did book it, you would have to understand the risks of wx/mx/atc/other delays with such a short connection.
Personally I think the OP did everything right and allowed buffering with the original flight. Unfortunately the OP hit a series of snafu's .. and these happen (could always be worse - I've been delayed in excess of 24 hrs).
Per that chart, I presume Canada is considered international. In the case of MSP, I notice 40 minutes is the MCT for domestic to Intl.
There are many reasons why I would book such a short connection from cheapest available to it being the only connection with award availability. In other cases, it is the only re-routing possible after an IRROP and connections at MEM tend to run short the way the banks are structured.
OT: In the case of my 35 minute connection in MEM going sour, this was with NW prior to them "outsourcing" the station employees at SDF prior to Deltafication. The station supervisor on-duty at SDF not only saved the day and re-routed me via DTW, but when he re-booked me he apologized that F was checked in full on SDF-DTW, and then said, "I got you a good window seat for DTW-AMS segment" with a wink and a nod.
With Delta, I have been pleased to see that at some outstations such as SDF, front-line staff appears to be enabled like the old NW staff was (before they were outsourced). This is a big plus.
Last edited by SDF_Traveler; Oct 29, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Oct 29, 2009, 3:36 pm
#66
In memoriam
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DAL
Programs: SWA A list preferred and CP, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Hertz President's club
Posts: 9,803
Thanks for the opinions and spirited discussion.
The one point that some of you are missing is that I DID leave PLENTY of buffer to get to my destination. Why should I have to leave a day early just to provide NWA with a "screw up buffer"? It was only through the actions of NWA (cancelled flight on the original outbound, then misplaced baggage on the second) that caused me to have such a tight connection in MSP.
Compounding the aggravation, as I walked up the automated clock on the gate display clearly showed it was precisely 10 minutes before departure. They closed the door earlier than their own stated policy and with the jetbridge still attached, it would have been a simple act to let me board (yes there were plenty of open seats).
The miles are meaningless to me so whether they gave me 25K or 30K or 100K, the entire purpose of the trip was voided as soon as I was unable to board the YYZ flight. I would gladly give the miles back in return for acknowledgement by someone at NWA that they (a) had made an error or at the very least applied their own boarding policies inconsistently, and (b) could have taken steps to prevent the situation.
In what other business would you accept this level of service as acceptable and customary? And before you answer, look at your own company's expectations for customer service: how would your best customer react if you delivered an order late, or broken or made to the wrong specs? Would you honestly look them in the eye and say "we gave you what you ordered, the late, broken or wrong part isn't our problem".
The one point that some of you are missing is that I DID leave PLENTY of buffer to get to my destination. Why should I have to leave a day early just to provide NWA with a "screw up buffer"? It was only through the actions of NWA (cancelled flight on the original outbound, then misplaced baggage on the second) that caused me to have such a tight connection in MSP.
Compounding the aggravation, as I walked up the automated clock on the gate display clearly showed it was precisely 10 minutes before departure. They closed the door earlier than their own stated policy and with the jetbridge still attached, it would have been a simple act to let me board (yes there were plenty of open seats).
The miles are meaningless to me so whether they gave me 25K or 30K or 100K, the entire purpose of the trip was voided as soon as I was unable to board the YYZ flight. I would gladly give the miles back in return for acknowledgement by someone at NWA that they (a) had made an error or at the very least applied their own boarding policies inconsistently, and (b) could have taken steps to prevent the situation.
In what other business would you accept this level of service as acceptable and customary? And before you answer, look at your own company's expectations for customer service: how would your best customer react if you delivered an order late, or broken or made to the wrong specs? Would you honestly look them in the eye and say "we gave you what you ordered, the late, broken or wrong part isn't our problem".
I agree with all those who made the comments about connections. And what wasnt said is MSP is down a runway right now, it is clearly posted on DL and NW websites to plan for delays, because when the weather turns even a little bad now it is horrible at MSP.
I just dont see how you get to PM without knowing what can happen!
Oct 29, 2009, 3:39 pm
#67
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
I'm personally avoiding MSP until things are fixed with the runway situation.
It would be nice if they could build an elevated tram at MSP that does the full loop, similar to what DFW has.
Oct 29, 2009, 4:23 pm
#68
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: TPA or In Flight
Programs: DL PM, 1MM
Posts: 671
A point to reinforce...this was international, I believe the door close is 15 minutes prior not 10.
I agree with all those who made the comments about connections. And what wasnt said is MSP is down a runway right now, it is clearly posted on DL and NW websites to plan for delays, because when the weather turns even a little bad now it is horrible at MSP.
I just dont see how you get to PM without knowing what can happen!
I agree with all those who made the comments about connections. And what wasnt said is MSP is down a runway right now, it is clearly posted on DL and NW websites to plan for delays, because when the weather turns even a little bad now it is horrible at MSP.
I just dont see how you get to PM without knowing what can happen!
-=tg=-
Oct 29, 2009, 4:23 pm
#69
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
A point to reinforce...this was international, I believe the door close is 15 minutes prior not 10.
I agree with all those who made the comments about connections. And what wasnt said is MSP is down a runway right now, it is clearly posted on DL and NW websites to plan for delays, because when the weather turns even a little bad now it is horrible at MSP.
I just dont see how you get to PM without knowing what can happen!
I agree with all those who made the comments about connections. And what wasnt said is MSP is down a runway right now, it is clearly posted on DL and NW websites to plan for delays, because when the weather turns even a little bad now it is horrible at MSP.
I just dont see how you get to PM without knowing what can happen!
Given the runway situation at MSP, if it were me, I probably would have asked for a FIM to another carrier.
I know AC provides a non-stop service - not sure if the timing would have worked, but I would have been looking at other options.
In the end, the compensation in mileage was pretty good.
Oct 30, 2009, 9:17 pm
#70
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nashville, & wherever I'm working
Programs: Delta 2MM DM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 104
When i read all the replies on this, I couldn't hardly believe how many FF were of the opinion that OP should have scheduled a day ahead if it was that important. If I planned an extra day for every trip I took, gee I'd be wasting way too much time. I agree you need to plan for problems but be prudent about it. First off, weather can be anticipated and avoided in most situations. I do it all the time. Weather was not a problem with OP. He did plan with at least one other option to get to destination. For me that's my standard plan...always have one alternate. In OP's case alternate failed because of carrier....not mechanical....OP still could make connection but carrier closed door. Maybe I am nuts but I don't think it's unreasonable that the GA would check roster after boarding, see that OP is on the ground and in terminal, and tried to be accomodating. Now there are many factors here and maybe that did happen. We don't know. I don't think OP should lose it on the GA, however we need to remember that we are the customer and we should expect reasonable service. When it's not reasonable complain!!! Otherwise they will never change!
Oct 30, 2009, 9:39 pm
#71
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL
Posts: 240
A closed flight is a closed flight.
Please note OP has no elite status on profile but notes PM status in post; pehaps is an experienced travler; A true PM should know that a closed flight is just that... closed. Granted, most often (on any airline) if the flight is closed on the computer a good GA can take/make the effort to re-open the dispatch record to ground control. However, if the door is closed and the ATC ground controller has slotted the flight, your chances of getting on are 0% -- even if the jetway is still attached.
Oct 31, 2009, 12:03 am
#72
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 386
Please note OP has no elite status on profile but notes PM status in post; pehaps is an experienced travler; A true PM should know that a closed flight is just that... closed. Granted, most often (on any airline) if the flight is closed on the computer a good GA can take/make the effort to re-open the dispatch record to ground control. However, if the door is closed and the ATC ground controller has slotted the flight, your chances of getting on are 0% -- even if the jetway is still attached.
So the problem here is visibility. Why do some folks win and some lose?
Was this a case of an airline with one or more non-motivated, having a bad day, layabout employees, OR was this a case of a fantastic service oriented carrier where dedicated, hard working, motivated employees did their level best to accommodate and were just prisoners of the system.
Only the Shadow knows, and that's the problem. No transparency implies lack of accountability, which in turn breeds poor behavior and performance.
The process and checks/balances might all be golden. Share that gold with the pax.
Oct 31, 2009, 2:05 am
#73
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL
Posts: 240
I agree there are situations wherein the door might not be able to be re-opened or a flight held. I also personally have seen the door re-opened to admit pax. I have also been sitting on a flight while held for a pax, and have had a flight held for me (possibly others) but the door closed when I boarded.
So the problem here is visibility. Why do some folks win and some lose?
Was this a case of an airline with one or more non-motivated, having a bad day, layabout employees, OR was this a case of a fantastic service oriented carrier where dedicated, hard working, motivated employees did their level best to accommodate and were just prisoners of the system.
Only the Shadow knows, and that's the problem. No transparency implies lack of accountability, which in turn breeds poor behavior and performance.
The process and checks/balances might all be golden. Share that gold with the pax.
So the problem here is visibility. Why do some folks win and some lose?
Was this a case of an airline with one or more non-motivated, having a bad day, layabout employees, OR was this a case of a fantastic service oriented carrier where dedicated, hard working, motivated employees did their level best to accommodate and were just prisoners of the system.
Only the Shadow knows, and that's the problem. No transparency implies lack of accountability, which in turn breeds poor behavior and performance.
The process and checks/balances might all be golden. Share that gold with the pax.
Last edited by DeltaDiamond; Oct 31, 2009 at 2:20 am
Oct 31, 2009, 7:21 am
#74
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kingdom of the Sun
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Oct 31, 2009, 7:57 am
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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