Complimentary Upgrade Available But Not Clearing: Shouldn't I Have Gotten It Already?
Nov 4, 2009, 12:19 am
#151
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: DL PM, PC Plat, HH Dia
Posts: 43
That afternoon DCA-SLC seems to be a bit bizarre-- always with a ton of seats in F with no advance upgrades. In August I was flying on a full Y fare with no advance upgrade. When I checked in 5 hours before the flight, the gate agent said, you look in great shape, there are 12 available seats and you are #1 on the upgrade list withe a full Y fare. By boarding time, I was #13 out of 69 on the waiting list and never did get an F seat on that flight. I couldn't believe that there must have been about 12 Platinums on full Y fares ahead of me in the upgrade queue if I really believe the process. Up until that point, I thought I pretty much had an upgrade snagged whenever I purchased a Y fare as a Platinum. At least at the last minute the gate agent came through and saved me from a 44B center seat, moving me up to an aisle near the front of economy.
Now that was a couple weeks before the NW WP merger into SkyMiles so I may have been disadvantaged on the waiting list with a World Perks Plat account (rather than SkyMiles with the DL Reserve). Somehow, even though it was a DL flight, that was the only time I ever received the NW Platinum guaranteed upgrade bonus for not receiving an upgrade. (My historic upgrade stats as a Plat for 5 years on NW-operated metal was 100%) And even though it was the only 1 out of 4 flight segments that I did not receive an upgrade, the NW computer system kindly gave me a 1,000 mile bonus for every flight segment on the itinerary--i.e. 4,000 miles.
Now that was a couple weeks before the NW WP merger into SkyMiles so I may have been disadvantaged on the waiting list with a World Perks Plat account (rather than SkyMiles with the DL Reserve). Somehow, even though it was a DL flight, that was the only time I ever received the NW Platinum guaranteed upgrade bonus for not receiving an upgrade. (My historic upgrade stats as a Plat for 5 years on NW-operated metal was 100%) And even though it was the only 1 out of 4 flight segments that I did not receive an upgrade, the NW computer system kindly gave me a 1,000 mile bonus for every flight segment on the itinerary--i.e. 4,000 miles.
Nov 4, 2009, 5:41 am
#152
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: TN
Programs: DL 2MM, AA ExPlat, UA S, HH S, MR LT Titanium, National Exec
Posts: 317
By Y fare, I'm assuming that you're talking a B or an M actual fare or that it was purchased inside of the 5 day window. I suppose it's possible as schedules shift that you have NR deadheads getting put on a route to SLC and were "jumping" in line. Still some funny business probably going on behind the desk...
No, I think he is saying he purchased a full Y fare. Upgrade on Y is not guarenteed at purchase, there has to be upgrade seats available, sounds like for that route DL is not opening up seats until the gate. So what he is saying is that as a Plat on a Y fare with AMEX Reserve the ONLY flyers in front of him should have been others who bought a Y fare at an ealier date that are Reserve and anyone buying an actual F seat (well and IROP's too).
Nov 4, 2009, 6:56 am
#153
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SJC/SFO/OAK
Programs: DL PM, SW, Hilton, , UAL PM, AA Gold-skeptic
Posts: 1,632
From looking again at your original post I see nothing in it that would lead us to believe that you thought you would "jump to the front of the line" on upgrades because you are a PM with Amex Reserve.
You asked why haven't you gotten your upgrade already with 21/26 available. Hence the "asked and answered in other threads" response that I gave you.
You didn't ask in your OP "what more do I have to do to score an upgrade when the whole cabin is nearly empty"? You've done everything by being PM with the Amex Reserve. But unassigned/empty seats were never promised by DL to anyone whether they be PM or hold the Amex reserve or both.
Obviously you thought the Amex reserve would give you more than what it actually gives. As El Boocho pointed out, you don't go to the front of the line. The Amex reserve card never promised that. You only go to the front of your purchased fare class.
BTW, everyone would prefer to have the upgrade clear in advance and not at the gate. The Amex reserve card never promised that either.
The logic is not skewed. You misunderstood the offer that DL makes on upgrades and Amex makes with the reserve card. IOW, your logic is skewed.
Perhaps you brought some experiences over from other airlines and thought DL would behave the same. Are their any airlines that offer UGs for high-elites for any seat not sold or assigned at the UG window? IOW, if I fly AA and am EXP, and they have not sold a seat in FC at 5-days out, will AA give me that UG? Or do they (all of them) hold seats for possible sale?
You asked why haven't you gotten your upgrade already with 21/26 available. Hence the "asked and answered in other threads" response that I gave you.
You didn't ask in your OP "what more do I have to do to score an upgrade when the whole cabin is nearly empty"? You've done everything by being PM with the Amex Reserve. But unassigned/empty seats were never promised by DL to anyone whether they be PM or hold the Amex reserve or both.
Obviously you thought the Amex reserve would give you more than what it actually gives. As El Boocho pointed out, you don't go to the front of the line. The Amex reserve card never promised that. You only go to the front of your purchased fare class.
BTW, everyone would prefer to have the upgrade clear in advance and not at the gate. The Amex reserve card never promised that either.
The logic is not skewed. You misunderstood the offer that DL makes on upgrades and Amex makes with the reserve card. IOW, your logic is skewed.
Perhaps you brought some experiences over from other airlines and thought DL would behave the same. Are their any airlines that offer UGs for high-elites for any seat not sold or assigned at the UG window? IOW, if I fly AA and am EXP, and they have not sold a seat in FC at 5-days out, will AA give me that UG? Or do they (all of them) hold seats for possible sale?
No, I don't think that's the case. I think that with the card you jump to the front of the line in your Elite tier, regardless of fare class. I could be mistaken, but that's how I understood the program.
Nov 4, 2009, 7:05 am
#154
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SJC/SFO/OAK
Programs: DL PM, SW, Hilton, , UAL PM, AA Gold-skeptic
Posts: 1,632
As far as the need for the originating post on this thread, we are all free to read what we want on this board. And I think that the real reason for this post was to simply express "shock and awe" that with such a wide open seat map (not always a valid measure), the upgrade did not clear at the window.
The criteria for clearing V upgrades in advance has always been unclear, but DL has a better sense of how a flight will sell than we do. I am a PM Reserve, and I almost always clear at the 5 day window even if I am surprised because of a crowded seat map.
Even though the OP was clear on this matter, it cannot be emphasized enough that advance upgrades are capacity controlled and not always an "automatic". And this true both domestic and international.
The criteria for clearing V upgrades in advance has always been unclear, but DL has a better sense of how a flight will sell than we do. I am a PM Reserve, and I almost always clear at the 5 day window even if I am surprised because of a crowded seat map.
Even though the OP was clear on this matter, it cannot be emphasized enough that advance upgrades are capacity controlled and not always an "automatic". And this true both domestic and international.
However, sometime between the online checkin and getting to the gate I was upgraded, (cool), but that was kind of the opposite experience to the SLC flight. In any case, I got upgrades on all 4 segments (cool again) which certainly beats my heretofore track record as a Gold, which was pretty dismal. However I do fly SFO - DTW a lot, so I understand the challenges with popular flights.
Nov 4, 2009, 7:31 am
#155
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: UA SP, DL SM MM, AS 75K, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond.
Posts: 2,596
NRSA's do magically pop up in the F cabin last minute, I've seen it a dozen times this year alone. Yes, it does seem UP's are being held to the last minute, and that they are more difficult to get. I recently only barely made it to the front cabin on a Q fare ATL-LAX on the 777-200LR. And have missed it on that route 3 times in the past 3-weeks.
Those with success with upgrades, shows just how much "your mileage will vary" on this, one of the main factors being where you are located. Ups from FLL and TPA have never been that difficult, LAX, ATL, DCA and NYC (all airports) have always been more difficult, and not just on DL.
Ups on the LAX-EWR route on CO for example as a PE are pretty much impossible, unless you book a fare M or above and secure the upgrade at the time of booking. I'd say (I've never kept a spreadsheet on it) that without the high fare bucket, I've been upgaded on that route about 20% of the time...yes I know this isn't the CO board...so before someone gets all cranked about that, I do already acknowledge.
I am just trying to say, fewer flights=fewer coach seats=fewer upgrades industry wide. Yes it sucks, we've been loyal, we fly a lot, but it does seem to be the new reality.
Those with success with upgrades, shows just how much "your mileage will vary" on this, one of the main factors being where you are located. Ups from FLL and TPA have never been that difficult, LAX, ATL, DCA and NYC (all airports) have always been more difficult, and not just on DL.
Ups on the LAX-EWR route on CO for example as a PE are pretty much impossible, unless you book a fare M or above and secure the upgrade at the time of booking. I'd say (I've never kept a spreadsheet on it) that without the high fare bucket, I've been upgaded on that route about 20% of the time...yes I know this isn't the CO board...so before someone gets all cranked about that, I do already acknowledge.
I am just trying to say, fewer flights=fewer coach seats=fewer upgrades industry wide. Yes it sucks, we've been loyal, we fly a lot, but it does seem to be the new reality.
Nov 4, 2009, 7:48 am
#156
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FLL
Programs: DL ♦M MM|HH♦|Marr Slvr|CO UA AA US|Pri Cub Plat|SPG|Avis 1st|Htz 5*
Posts: 5,044
This is how I understand it from this site: http://cwsi.net/mupc.aspx
But I don't have the Amex reserve so you might be right and could definitely be wrong.
However my main point was that no matter what the pecking order, even the highest of highest of highest is not going to get an upgrade at the 5-day window just because there are unsold seats in FC. Neither DL nor Amex has ever claimed otherwise AFAIK.
Nov 4, 2009, 8:49 am
#157
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,677
No, I think he is saying he purchased a full Y fare. Upgrade on Y is not guarenteed at purchase, there has to be upgrade seats available, sounds like for that route DL is not opening up seats until the gate. So what he is saying is that as a Plat on a Y fare with AMEX Reserve the ONLY flyers in front of him should have been others who bought a Y fare at an ealier date that are Reserve and anyone buying an actual F seat (well and IROP's too).
My understanding is that the time stamp tie breaker only applies within an elite level. i.e. if there are 2 GMs on Y's, the who requested the upgrade first wil get the upgrade. However if there is a PM on a full Y who requested the upgrade after the GMs, the PM will be ranked higher on the list.
Nov 4, 2009, 9:10 am
#158
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: TN
Programs: DL 2MM, AA ExPlat, UA S, HH S, MR LT Titanium, National Exec
Posts: 317
From delta.com
Receive upgrade priority over non-Delta Reserve Cardmembers within Medallion level and fare class.