US "penalty" for travel to Cuba ?
Sep 9, 2009, 3:41 pm
#17
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I'm from the US, but dont really consider myself as such. I feel more like a "world citizen" It just says in my passport, US.. however.. back to the topic at hand.
THESE OLD AND OUTDATED EMBARGO S%#$ NEEDS to GO!!! IT NEEDS TO BE AXED!
THESE OLD AND OUTDATED EMBARGO S%#$ NEEDS to GO!!! IT NEEDS TO BE AXED!
Sep 9, 2009, 10:31 pm
#18
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I think it would be madness for a US citizen to fly any airline to Havana where an electronic record of your travels to Cuba could be seen by US authorities. Even if DL doesn't award miles, presumably they receive the raw data feed from SU and then apply the "no miles" rule afterwards.
The departure taxes (asssuming they exist) out of Cuba would alone suffice for UST to get you.
Feb 7, 2010, 12:44 am
#20
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Is that true only for US citizens? Is that SU trying to do a favor for US citizens?
I think it would be madness for a US citizen to fly any airline to Havana where an electronic record of your travels to Cuba could be seen by US authorities. Even if DL doesn't award miles, presumably they receive the raw data feed from SU and then apply the "no miles" rule afterwards.
The departure taxes (asssuming they exist) out of Cuba would alone suffice for UST to get you.
I think it would be madness for a US citizen to fly any airline to Havana where an electronic record of your travels to Cuba could be seen by US authorities. Even if DL doesn't award miles, presumably they receive the raw data feed from SU and then apply the "no miles" rule afterwards.
The departure taxes (asssuming they exist) out of Cuba would alone suffice for UST to get you.
The most common way to obtain this "proof" is to question travellers on arrival. You are obliged by law to truthfully complete a customs declaration that asks you to list the countries you visited. You should never fail to list Cuba if that's where you went. However, if they ask you any questions about how you paid for your trip, unless you are stupid enough to answer with anything other than "I decline to answer", or stupid enough to have receipts related to your stay on your person, then it's pretty much impossible for them to prove you spent money there.
Yes, they will send you a letter demanding a 7500 USD administrative penalty (not a "fine"), and offering to negotiate something less. Respond by declining to pay and telling them to sue if they don't like it. As the NY Times article pointed out, the court responsible for enforcing these penalties has never once convened in the 10+ years since it was established. Again, they know if they attempt to prosecute the whole law will get tossed, which is why the Venceneremos Brigade flies to Cuba from Toronto and back every year, then marches across the border into the USA at Niagara Falls carrying huge banners announcing to the CBP that they are just back from Cuba. They would love for the Feds to attempt to prosecute, because then the courts would strike down this obviously unconstitutional law once and forever. Aside from some infantile attempts at hassling them, CBP never touches them.
So once again, it is NOT illegal for Americans to visit Cuba and anyone saying otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
Mar 27, 2010, 7:12 pm
#21
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As several people have noted on the thread, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL for Americans to visit Cuba. The handful here who have posted otherwise are WRONG. The law (which has never been enforced by a US court because the exec branch is fully aware that they are on very shaky legal ground and don't want to risk having it struck down by trying to enforce it) is against "transactions" related to travel to Cuba. So to even attempt to fine you, demonstrating that you went to Cuba is not enough, it has to be PROVEN that you spent money there.
The most common way to obtain this "proof" is to question travellers on arrival. You are obliged by law to truthfully complete a customs declaration that asks you to list the countries you visited. You should never fail to list Cuba if that's where you went. However, if they ask you any questions about how you paid for your trip, unless you are stupid enough to answer with anything other than "I decline to answer", or stupid enough to have receipts related to your stay on your person, then it's pretty much impossible for them to prove you spent money there.
Yes, they will send you a letter demanding a 7500 USD administrative penalty (not a "fine"), and offering to negotiate something less. Respond by declining to pay and telling them to sue if they don't like it. As the NY Times article pointed out, the court responsible for enforcing these penalties has never once convened in the 10+ years since it was established. Again, they know if they attempt to prosecute the whole law will get tossed, which is why the Venceneremos Brigade flies to Cuba from Toronto and back every year, then marches across the border into the USA at Niagara Falls carrying huge banners announcing to the CBP that they are just back from Cuba. They would love for the Feds to attempt to prosecute, because then the courts would strike down this obviously unconstitutional law once and forever. Aside from some infantile attempts at hassling them, CBP never touches them.
So once again, it is NOT illegal for Americans to visit Cuba and anyone saying otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
The most common way to obtain this "proof" is to question travellers on arrival. You are obliged by law to truthfully complete a customs declaration that asks you to list the countries you visited. You should never fail to list Cuba if that's where you went. However, if they ask you any questions about how you paid for your trip, unless you are stupid enough to answer with anything other than "I decline to answer", or stupid enough to have receipts related to your stay on your person, then it's pretty much impossible for them to prove you spent money there.
Yes, they will send you a letter demanding a 7500 USD administrative penalty (not a "fine"), and offering to negotiate something less. Respond by declining to pay and telling them to sue if they don't like it. As the NY Times article pointed out, the court responsible for enforcing these penalties has never once convened in the 10+ years since it was established. Again, they know if they attempt to prosecute the whole law will get tossed, which is why the Venceneremos Brigade flies to Cuba from Toronto and back every year, then marches across the border into the USA at Niagara Falls carrying huge banners announcing to the CBP that they are just back from Cuba. They would love for the Feds to attempt to prosecute, because then the courts would strike down this obviously unconstitutional law once and forever. Aside from some infantile attempts at hassling them, CBP never touches them.
So once again, it is NOT illegal for Americans to visit Cuba and anyone saying otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
Jun 4, 2010, 4:10 pm
#22
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As several people have noted on the thread, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL for Americans to visit Cuba. The handful here who have posted otherwise are WRONG. The law (which has never been enforced by a US court because the exec branch is fully aware that they are on very shaky legal ground and don't want to risk having it struck down by trying to enforce it) is against "transactions" related to travel to Cuba. So to even attempt to fine you, demonstrating that you went to Cuba is not enough, it has to be PROVEN that you spent money there.
The most common way to obtain this "proof" is to question travellers on arrival. You are obliged by law to truthfully complete a customs declaration that asks you to list the countries you visited. You should never fail to list Cuba if that's where you went. However, if they ask you any questions about how you paid for your trip, unless you are stupid enough to answer with anything other than "I decline to answer", or stupid enough to have receipts related to your stay on your person, then it's pretty much impossible for them to prove you spent money there.
Yes, they will send you a letter demanding a 7500 USD administrative penalty (not a "fine"), and offering to negotiate something less. Respond by declining to pay and telling them to sue if they don't like it. As the NY Times article pointed out, the court responsible for enforcing these penalties has never once convened in the 10+ years since it was established. Again, they know if they attempt to prosecute the whole law will get tossed, which is why the Venceneremos Brigade flies to Cuba from Toronto and back every year, then marches across the border into the USA at Niagara Falls carrying huge banners announcing to the CBP that they are just back from Cuba. They would love for the Feds to attempt to prosecute, because then the courts would strike down this obviously unconstitutional law once and forever. Aside from some infantile attempts at hassling them, CBP never touches them.
So once again, it is NOT illegal for Americans to visit Cuba and anyone saying otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
The most common way to obtain this "proof" is to question travellers on arrival. You are obliged by law to truthfully complete a customs declaration that asks you to list the countries you visited. You should never fail to list Cuba if that's where you went. However, if they ask you any questions about how you paid for your trip, unless you are stupid enough to answer with anything other than "I decline to answer", or stupid enough to have receipts related to your stay on your person, then it's pretty much impossible for them to prove you spent money there.
Yes, they will send you a letter demanding a 7500 USD administrative penalty (not a "fine"), and offering to negotiate something less. Respond by declining to pay and telling them to sue if they don't like it. As the NY Times article pointed out, the court responsible for enforcing these penalties has never once convened in the 10+ years since it was established. Again, they know if they attempt to prosecute the whole law will get tossed, which is why the Venceneremos Brigade flies to Cuba from Toronto and back every year, then marches across the border into the USA at Niagara Falls carrying huge banners announcing to the CBP that they are just back from Cuba. They would love for the Feds to attempt to prosecute, because then the courts would strike down this obviously unconstitutional law once and forever. Aside from some infantile attempts at hassling them, CBP never touches them.
So once again, it is NOT illegal for Americans to visit Cuba and anyone saying otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
1) Which provision of the Constitution do you think the spending prohibition violates?
2) If you're so sure the government won't prosecute, then why not just tell the truth about having spent money in Cuba?
Jun 8, 2010, 12:42 pm
#23
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Try the 10th Amendment. The Constitution does not give the U.S. gov't the right to regulate in areas that are reserved to the states or to the people. We, the people, ceded certain powers to the government while retaining most for ourselves. Can you point to a constitutional provision in which we ceded our right to spend money in Cuba?
Jun 8, 2010, 12:56 pm
#24
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Try the 10th Amendment. The Constitution does not give the U.S. gov't the right to regulate in areas that are reserved to the states or to the people. We, the people, ceded certain powers to the government while retaining most for ourselves. Can you point to a constitutional provision in which we ceded our right to spend money in Cuba?
Look, I think this is a stupid policy too, but it's not unconstitutional. The Framers understood the need for a strong national government when it comes to matters of foreign policy and they drafted the Constitution accordingly.
Do you also think we have an individual right to sell arms to Iran, since there's no language in the Constitution that specifically gives the Feds the power to prohibit it?
Jun 8, 2010, 1:39 pm
#25
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Yes, we ceded to the federal government the power "[t]o regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes." U.S. Const. Art. I Sec. 8.
Look, I think this is a stupid policy too, but it's not unconstitutional. The Framers understood the need for a strong national government when it comes to matters of foreign policy and they drafted the Constitution accordingly.
Do you also think we have an individual right to sell arms to Iran, since there's no language in the Constitution that specifically gives the Feds the power to prohibit it?
Look, I think this is a stupid policy too, but it's not unconstitutional. The Framers understood the need for a strong national government when it comes to matters of foreign policy and they drafted the Constitution accordingly.
Do you also think we have an individual right to sell arms to Iran, since there's no language in the Constitution that specifically gives the Feds the power to prohibit it?
My reading of the Constitution does not allow Congress to prohibit foreign travel under the guise of controlling the flow of assets under the Commerce Clause. By saying that money can't be spent in Cuba, an American is essentially forced to break the law if she travels to Cuba.
As you know, the government originally banned travel to Cuba outright after the Revolution, but that measure was struck down the by the SCOTUS. Current law achieves the same result.
I think Douglas and Goldberg make some strong arguments in their dissenting opinions in Zemel v. Rusk.
Jun 8, 2010, 2:16 pm
#26
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Jun 29, 2010, 12:55 pm
#27
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OFAC seem uninterested in policing the Cuba travel ban. For a number of years (not just since 2009), they only seem interested in chasing people who buy Cuban cigars.
Thousands of US residents travel to Cuba illegally every month - and very few have any problems at all.
Thousands of US residents travel to Cuba illegally every month - and very few have any problems at all.
Nov 3, 2010, 7:04 am
#28
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wouldn't flying into cuba from mexico but then flying out to say canada solve the problem of double entry stamps? any reason why this wouldn't look like you went straight from mexico to canada?
Nov 3, 2010, 9:08 am
#29
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Yes and no... you'd still fly over US airspace and so the US would have the passenger manifest with your name anyway.
I'd suggest instead flying back to the Dominican Republic or the Bahamas.
I'd suggest instead flying back to the Dominican Republic or the Bahamas.
Nov 3, 2010, 9:17 am
#30
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Without reference to all the political commentary. Americans without relatives in Cuba or other official US permission to go there will not be permitted to board any of ther numerous US flights to Cuba.
US citizens wishing to vist can go to any of the countries that have nonstops to Cuba, take a flight from one of them, and have their passports not stamped for Cuba entry and exit. Upon return to the US one simply omits Cuba from the list of countries visited prior to US arrival. While in Cuba use cash.
No mileage credit on flights to/from Cuba.
No hassles .
Some political issues with doctrinaire Americans if you talk about it.
As a former Miami resident almost all my neighbors went to Cuba at least once per year. Most of them were of Cuban heritage, thus flew out of MIA. Everybody else went to some nearby country and connected.
US citizens wishing to vist can go to any of the countries that have nonstops to Cuba, take a flight from one of them, and have their passports not stamped for Cuba entry and exit. Upon return to the US one simply omits Cuba from the list of countries visited prior to US arrival. While in Cuba use cash.
No mileage credit on flights to/from Cuba.
No hassles .
Some political issues with doctrinaire Americans if you talk about it.
As a former Miami resident almost all my neighbors went to Cuba at least once per year. Most of them were of Cuban heritage, thus flew out of MIA. Everybody else went to some nearby country and connected.