Premier Pass elite CC scam
 

I have been searching Premier pass information on the internet which led me to this forum. I am not sure if it is a scam or I had been lucky getting air miles transfer to my thankyou network.

Here is my situation.

I applied PP elite credit card last year for $75 fee and got 15000 bonus miles which was transferred to my Thankyou member account within 3 months after my first purchase, I then started buying airline tickets for me and my family and continued getting those flying mile transferred to thankyou member acc on 1mile flown:1 thankyou point ratio. I then redeemed those miles for 3 tickets and was happy. So far so good.
Since last couple of month some of my old airline tickets mile didn't get transferred to my thankyou member acc. I bought the tickets the same way as I did before and sent them the Itinerates and boarding stubs. After contacting them they told me they have received the paper work but they won't transfer the miles to my thankyou network for redemption, I have earned the miles and its in the pipeline and it shows on the monthly statement but in order to get those points I have to make the same amount of purchase on my credit card, which means if I fly 30,000 miles I will get those miles only if I spend $30,000. This got me very frustrated because I am not spending 30,000 any time soon.


I have no idea what to do; I didn't churn the card and paid another $75 fee a month ago. My 30,000 miles are stuck in the pipeline and I have been told I will receive it only if I make $30,000 purchases. What should I do? Please help. Is this happened to any one else?

Welcome to FT! You'll be able to seach in this forum and find that this is how the card is set up. It's a very beneficial rewards program that can get you multiple points per dollar spend. However, for each mile received for travel, you need a matching dollar spent for those to count as TY points that are redeemable.

You should have read the rules more carefully, as this is how the card was set up.

You can do one of two things:
1. Cancel the card and ask them for the $75 back, provided you spend that in the last 30 days.
2. Continue to use the card, knowing you will get 2 points per dollar spent.

Good flying!

Best Regards,
Jayzee9

Welcome to FT....

Sorry, but you are SOL .....

That is the way the card is setup and everyone on this forum has understood and accepted it....you can't get something for nothing....

But at least you got 3 tickets out of it without getting caught...at first the Premier Pass CC did not take into acct flight points vs. actual spending...they have fixed this bug...now only $1 spent = 1 flight point .....

I have approx 8000 flight points stuck in my business cc...

oh well....

Thanks a lot guys, I thought it was just me but if it's that's in their terms and condition then I will cancel it in a couple of days. I am going to give it a last try with the customer rep and see if we can work out some thing, if not then will say bye bye to the card.

I don't think there is anything to work out. Citi is under no obligation to "work it out" under the current T&C. If Traveler1404 visit this forum before applying for this card, he/she would have known. So the word "scam" in OP is just wrong. You can't blame citi because you don't read T&C.

its not a scam... thats how their system works, and to me that makes it worthless :D

plus, lack of international first class.

its clearly your fault for not understanding that, even though you could say they were somewhat misleading.

Let's be nice. The orignal poster is new to Flyer Talk.

Yes. The program works as follows:

a. 1 point per $ spent
b. 2 points per $ spent at grocery stores, etc.
c. Each point that is earned can be matched by a flight point.
d. If you keep flight points laying you effectively earn:

2 pt = 1 purchase pt + 1 flight pt per $ spent
4 pt = 1 purchase pt + 1 flight pt per $ spent at grocery stores, etc.

On average, this is comparable or better than all Citi Thankyou Cards except for Chairman Card. (For some people, other cards may be better.)

These points are great except that they cannot be used for upgrades. I primarily use the points for purchasing gift cards. This guarantees a 2-6% earning per $ spent on my Chairman Card. In your case it would be a 2-4% earning on your PP Elite. That is pretty good these days.

ThankYou points are useful for Domestic coach travel.

im sorry but as others have pointed out, you don't call things scams when YOU are the one in error. heck, you dont even call it a scam when there is simply a misunderstanding on anyone's part.

people, new and old, are throwing it around way too much on FT.

its supposed to mean behavior that is at least unethical, if not illegal.

actually they have first class..you have to call and look for the tickets you want and then they will give you the point redemption....

with the Chairman card, you also get 2 for 1 - got tickets to Jaimaca in Dec. in F for 900R/T each for me and my wife....in the 2 for 1 deal...

just be prepared to redeem a lot of point for Firt, but the point earning is so great, it really does not bother me....

I have been with TY network for exactly 2 yrs now and have earned 415,000pts....should clear 600,000 by years end...spedning is nowhere near that amt...maybe 60%

so you spent $107K per year for 2 years, and now are going to spend $87K in 2 months?

or are you counting flight points that you cant redeem yet?

also..

NH 120K EU-Asia F
lets say it costs $10K, that means 1 million TYN right?
500K flight points plus $500K spending matches = both are redeemable
starwood card earns at about 1.25 meaning $96K spending. (not counting starwood bonus)

5X spending required, plus flying 500K miles

Way less than 107k in actual spending...remember that Thank you merchants also offer extra points for shopping with them....actual spending for the yr 2005 which includes Chairman and Premier Pass which came to approx 85,300 and some change...also, with Premier Pass I did not earn the extra point as you would with Chairman...I have had the Chairman since Sept 2005....

I am counting some miles that I have not yet earned but have been booked....for this yr since I have yet to take the flight...

I am earning approx 4-5 pt per dollar spent...so a biz class ticket to Bombay is 165,000/4 = $41250 in actual spending for me...for others it might be a bit different.....and I get my pick of airline...which earns me FF miles in C class since they actually buy me a ticket...

I do not think that Starwood could beat this...

your calculations on Thank You Points could be totally off base. They don't publish rates for F international, so you need to call and ask about specific flights instead of assuming in order to bolster your position. I recall that another poster got 2 F tickets North America - India for approximately 160k TY Points each. Search this forum for more details.

Also, Thank You point-ticketed flights earn FF miles; earn EQMs; are eligible for upgrades; have no capacity controls; and have no blackout dates. This makes them potentially much more valuable than airline miles accrued by SPG Amex transfer.

At any rate, I agree that the word "scam" should be deleted from the very misleading title of this altogether unnecessary thread.

they were C tickets (business not first)

a chairman cardholder stated that first is only a custom award which is a 1 cent per point redemption IIRC

(there are business options ex-US, so i did not say it didnt offer that)

i dont recall people talking about earning bonuses before. did i miss that?

it has a thing similar to everyday spending on premier pass elite, youre saying chairman gets 3 or more points per dollar instead of 2 anaggie?

Sorry guys, if I have offended you by saying "IT’S A SCAM". If you read the original post it clearly stats that I am new to FT and that I am learning new tricks and trade. A simple explanation would have been enough.

Thanks to guys who answered my questions without being my dad. It's a mistake and I have learned a lesson.

I bought that credit card for free gas because I was bored one day. It offers a 60% return on your money in 2 months. Here's how it penciled out for me: No purchases necessary, for the $75 annual fee you get 15,000 Thank You Points = Two $50 (2 x 6000 TYP's) + Two $10 (2 x 1500 TYP's) Shell gas cards = $120, minus the $75 annual fee = $45 in free gas. I intend to close the account prior to renewal. Far from great, it's not bad, and it's just one of dozens of credit card accounts I play with.

Chairman gets 3 pts per dollar spent on everyday spending such as the gas stations, drugstores and so forth....

Then there is also TY merchants who give you bonus pts...I bought a $800 LCD TV for my bedroom thru Crutchfield online and I earned 7 pt per dollar spent...

Then last Christmas I did my entire shopping online with TY merchants and earned a ton of points that way...approx 3000 extra per month till Feb/Mar after all the Xmas purchases came thru...


Will do same thing this yr...you can also get TY pts for shopping at Drugstore.com and so forth...

It really maximizes your points...

If you travel frequently on plane tickets purchased with your Chairman Card, each purchase point that you earn will be matched by a flight point. Therefore,

For Drugstore, Grocery, and Gas spending you earn...1 purchase point + 2 select purchase points + 3 matching flight points = 6 points per $

For Other spending you earn...1 purchase point + 1 matching flight point = 2 points per $.

For Thankyou Merchant spending you earn...what ever is listed on the ThankYou Merchant website as high as 10+ points per $. Unfortunately, my Chairman Card cannot be enrolled in TY Merchants due to a technical issue. Citibank did give me 10,000 points to compensate me for this issue (which were matched by flight points to give a total of 20,000 bonus points).

This is an excellent breakdown of the point earning capability....I think that this is the only card where you can earn a ton of point by spending the least...

I know it is not midnight, but when you do wake up will you tell me how to duplicate getting the 20k? You can pm if you like. ;)

Ditto. :)

Some cards that were converted from Premier Pass to Chairman (including mine) cannot be registered in the Thank You merchant program for some technical reason.

I called ThankYou about this once...they bounced me around for 30min
I called again and was told that Chairman was ineligible for the Thank You merchant program
I complained...they gave me 5,000 points (after flight point match this is 10,000)
They still did not fix it
I complained again...they gave me another 5,000 points (after flight point match this is 10,000)
They still did not fix it...they are due for another complaint :)

Basically whenever I have called Chairman to complain about anything they have handed out 5,000 points. The discussion goes something like this "I am calling beause of ... I chose a premium credit card because of superior customer service, the time that it saves me (which I can spend on FT), and the benefits. This is causing me to lose confidence in the program."

Now I have just got to start feeling a loss of confidence.

My experience
 

I hate to open up a can of worms again, but the original poster is semi-right and the same thing happened to me. A card that advertises itself as getting 1 point per mile and hides it's eligibilty in it's very "non-layman's" terms and conditions is scamming the public and making people sign on fo rthe card without knowing this first and by the time they catch on it's been 3 months.

Here are the terms from its web site....remember this is not even vaiguly mentioned anywhere else.

If you are approved for a Card Account, a ThankYouSM Network Member Account (“ThankYou Member Account”) will be set up for you. ThankYou Purchase Points post to your Card Account at the close of each billing cycle, and at that time are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account. ThankYou Flight Points post to your Card Account and will transfer at the close of each billing cycle to your ThankYou Member Account when we transfer, or have previously transferred, an equal or greater number of ThankYou Purchase Points. ThankYou Points are not eligible for redemption until they are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account.

Maybe I'm not a geniuse or I'm even plain stupid! but to hide it...yes hide it in "if you are approved for a card account" seems mostly misleading and purposely decieving people to sign on. expected from a smaller business...not from a major corp...others have been sued for less than this.


Just my 2 cents.

There is no deception. There is no fraud. They are not even hiding anything. The terms and conditions are clear and unambiguous.

Who doesn't read the T&Cs when applying for a credit card? :confused:

What credit card company has been sued for less than this? (seriously curious)

There is no deception and no fraud in laying out the terms of an agreement. It's your fault for not reading the terms of a contract you agreed to.

that is why they have a saying

"always read the SMALL PRINT"

I agree. It is very clear from the terms and conditions how this card works. Further, the rewards value of the card is 2% or more per $ spent. That is a very good reward rate. (However, how it adds up on your monthly statement is not always clear.)

There are usually conditions to rewards:

- Discover Card - You can only redeem in $25 increments
- Citi Dividend - You can only redeem when you earn $50 or more
- Fidelity Visa Signature - You earn a 1.5% reward, but it is only redeemable in $50 increments
- Expiration dates, point transfer fees, etc.

In every case you must read the terms and conditions. It is a shame to devalue a good card publicly because you did not read the T&C. If you use the card for what it is you will realize that it provides good value.

I know that this isn't supposed to happen, but I have the Diamond Preferred card as well as the PremierPass, and it has always credited by Diamond purchase points towards my PremierPass flight points.

With the Diamond card, they used to give 5pts dollar for groceries and gas. That isn't a permanent benefit anymore, but it is for the first 12 months, so if you sign up for the Diamond card, this loop hole may get you 10 cents a mile until you match your flight points. I think it may have worked for me because I consolidated the cards into my ThankYou account.

I also do agree with the other posters that this point matching req wasn't hidden.. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up.

Does it mean that PP will not match flight points with 15000 bonus points? Please tell me. THanks.

Flight points will match any points earned with the PP card (including bonus points). Flight points will not match TY points earned with other cards or a Citi checking account

One thing you might want to look into is the Citi AT&T Universal Card. You get 5 points for every dollar spent at grocery stores, gas stations, and drug stores. These points will go into the same ThankYou Network account as the points for your PremierPass Elite card. Using that AT&T Universal card won't transfer your flight points from the PremierPass Elite card into your ThankYou account, but it will ensure that you are either earning 2 (1 flight + 1 spending point for your PPE) or 5 points (on the Universal card) for every purchase you make at a store.

And if you drop the PremierPass Elite, you might want to just get the PremierPass. That has no annual fee, and you get one flight point transferred for every 3 you spend. Plus an extra 10,000 points for signing up. :D

Get as many as those ThankYou cards as you want. You get the signup bonus on all of them.

Actually, the AT&T Universal Rewards card has not offered 5X ThankYou Points at gas stations, grocery stores, and drugstores for about 6 months now for new applicants (old applicants are still grandfathered in). They only offer 5X points on AT&T purchases. I know you may not believe me because when you go to the AT&T Website the initial page describes 5X points at gas, grocery, drugstores, but when you click apply and then terms and conditions you will see that only AT&T purchases apply.

I am glad to hear that. Thank you for the reply. :)

Really? That's what I get for being busy and not keeping up with all of this. Looks like I beat them restricting that one by a few weeks or days. :D

Citi PremierPass card not a SCAM, but be aware
 

As stated before, this is not a SCAM. However I consider this to be very unpolite and in my case, unacceptable.

If you carefully read the Terms and Conditions, you will find the following:

If you are approved for a Card Account, a ThankYouSM Network Member Account (“ThankYou Member Account”) will be set up for you. ThankYou Purchase Points post to your Card Account at the close of each billing cycle, and at that time are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account. ThankYou Flight Points post to your Card Account and will transfer at the close of each billing cycle to your ThankYou Member Account when we transfer, or have previously transferred, an equal or greater number of ThankYou Purchase Points. ThankYou Points are not eligible for redemption until they are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account.

That means what at this point we all know, no flight points if you don't spend (almost) the same amount in $$. You can fast forward that by buying 2X goods/services, however it's still spending a lot of $$.

The problem I find here is they don't expose that restriction in a straight forward manner. Even more, they mask it under "We will set-up a TY account" title and then mix Thank You purchase points with Thank You Points and Thank You flight points. Very confusing. When you write a paragraph, the first words are the most important and should be explained or substantiated by the rest of the text.

More over, this is way the most frequent deception on this card, and this cap is not stated in the FAQ.

There's anything free, read the T&C. Everyone knows that there's anything so good, but this is also masked when they correctly advertise the 200k points cap. Very clever. They didn't forget about anything.

I consider that they commited this on purpose. I think they are hiding this cap in a premeditated way.

Many people felt into this card without understanding this because it is not clear. If -many- people feels bad about this, then I think this should be considered deceptive marketing. I'd wonder how many cardmembers asked for a refund.

Consider me a stupid, but however I read the Terms and Conds; I also felt in this card without understanding this.

This is just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer and this is not an advice. Just what I think.

I won't forget. I will probably stay out from citicards for a long period of time.

PS: This is a card for travelers, however they charge 3% as a commision for goods purchased out of the country. AMEX charges 2%. Do the math.

as for the foreign exchange, my understanding is amex uses higher exchange rates, so the TOTAL cost to you is about 3%, or same as everyone else. they just make it look like its lower by lowering the "commission" and raising the "exchange rate"

Exchange Rate
 

I'll check and get back to the forum with that data.

Something that just worked great for me when I was in Grand Cayman...they charged me in USD instead of GCD -- so I bypassed the 3% conversion fee from Citibank...charged everything on m crad...earned a hell of a lot points,....


I will try that when I am in other places and see if ther merchant can charge me in USD instead of local currency and let us see what happens....

example of exchange rates from my last trip >

7/21 eu
atm 1.26
amex 1.29

7/25 gbp
atm 1.85
amex 1.89

AMEX is far better than Citicards for transactions in non-USD
 

Citibank PremierPass Elite full statement closing dec/15/2006:

11/27 AEROMEXICO CAPITAL FEDER ARG AR ,4,239.40 ARGENTINE PESO Standard Purch 1,388.83

11/27 Interbank exchange 1USD=3.078
Citibank convertion 1USD=3.052 (-0.85%)

11/28 GRUPO TACA CAPITAL FEDER ARG AR ,2,063.00 ARGENTINE PESO Standard Purch 675.84

11/28 Interbank exchange 1USD=3.8
Citibank convertion 1USD=3.052 (-0.91%)

12/15 12/15 00000000 PURCHASES*FINANCE CHARGE*FOREIGN TRANS Standard Purch 61.93

3% of $2064,67 = $61.94



According to Yahoo Finance December 15 (closing date) interbank exchange rate was 3.058. As is obvious by looking at the previous differences, Citibank exchange rate is applied on the closing date. Citibank applied 3.052 which is 0.2% less than interbank reported by Yahoo.

Citibank then charged 3% "Foreing Trans". Although it says "standard purch" I did not get any TY points for that charge.

Citibank totals a consistent 3.2% commision on the exchange rate.

American Express Purchases

Here we don't need the complete statement because they don't add a finance charge at the end.



11/16/06 MXP 599.00 USD56.53
RESTAURANTE CASA MANDARINA (CUERNAVACA)

11/15 Interbank Exchange Rate 1USD=10.8459
AMEX exchange rate 1USD=10.5961 (-2,30%)


12/11/06 MXP 1,004.40 USD94.56
F INN ACAPULCO ACAPULCO GUERRERO

11/11 Interbank Exchange Rate 1USD=10.8422
AMEX exchange rate 1USD=10.6218 (-2,03%)




As per what they say in the statement and we can see here, AMEX makes the conversion on the date they process the charge.

In the statement there's a specific note stating they make the conversion on the date the charge is processed by them or their agents (I'm not sure if that the same as "posted"). It also says that the exchange rate is the upper value published by any gov agency or the interbank exchange rate taken from "trusted" sources (not yahoo :)) on the day or the day before the conversion, incrementing it by 2%.

You get MR points for this commision.

AMEX totals a non-consistent 2.17% commision on the exchange rate. It's probably 2% depending on the rate sources.

CONCLUSION

Neither AMEX nor Citibank charge commision for purchases in USD out of the United States. Verified on transactions in Ecuador and Panama.

AMEX uses a conversion rate that you know and understand when you make your purchase. In some unstable countries, Citibank can surprise you with a huge price increment because they will convert it at the closing date instead of the date of purchase.

AMEX charges 2.15% commision over the rate while Citibank charges 3.2%. Even if Citibank gives you 2 TY points for every USD spent out of the country (supposing you have enough flight miles); that extra point value is $0.01 per each dollar and there's the 1% difference.

AMEX is far better for transactions out-of-the country.

You get points for the commisions.

I would use AMEX out of the US and the Citibank PPass in the US. The only reason I think I can use Citibank PPass outside the US is if I want to take advantage of the fixed points business class tickets.