AMEX is far better for transactions out-of-the country
 

Sorry, doble clicked

AMEX is far better for transactions out-of-the country
 

Oops, I did it again! (was very slow and hit space)

The best option is to use neither Amex nor Citi for non-USD purchases. There are 0% fx cards out there (see the big thread in MilesBuzz or the Wiki entry). I personally don't trust Amex. Generally they're in the 2.25% range but every once in a while I'll see a 5% or something like that (always in a non-major foreign currency).

Watch out! Some companies will charge you the foreign exchange fee even if you charge in USD. Effectively you will pay for exchange twice!

I second this. Most, if not all Capital One cards charge 0% with fair wholesale forex rates. Many credit unions charge only 1%. I haven't paid more than wholesale on a credit card in quite some time.

Chase also charges 3%. At least for the Continental Airlines co-branded mastercard:

International Transactions: 3% of the U.S. dollar amount of the transaction, whether originally made in U.S. dollars or converted from a foreign currency.

http://www.chase.com/ccp/jsps/cards/...ourcecode=64GZ

Cheers

Well then, apparently not "all." Still, "most," including my plain old Capital One No Hassle Card, which I keep and use solely for this purpose. Worth getting one if you do any international traveling.

Can we get back to TY Points, Please!
 

The responses seem to be off topic at this point.

From post #36 thru #47, foreign currency exchange rates were the focus. However, we already have an ongoing thread on that topic: Best card for foreign exchange?. IIRC, most people are not happy about Amex exchange rates. IMHO, this line of discussion belongs there.

Can we please move back to OP's original inquiry and discussion about Premier Pass Elite/TY points? I am considering getting a new CC since Chase is changing their terms to strickly no sign-up bonus miles. I haven't paid any attention to TY points until very recently. Reading this thread helped me quite a bit in terms of learning about TY points before it got "off-road."

Thank You, even though I can't give out TY points. :p

TY is a good program. The pros are:

1. Many cards can earn 2+ points per dollar spent. You can get a $100 gift card for 10,000 points. Thus, you are often getting 2% or more return for each dollar spent.
2. PP Elite earns 2 points per $ for regular spending and 4 points per $ for select spending, if you include the matching flight points. This is a pretty good return. If you keep flying you will always earn 2% plus!
3. You can have multiple cards and tailor your spending to the benefits of the card, e.g. Citi Professional earns 3pts for restaurants, car rentals, etc.
4. You can get decent coach tickets with your points. Those tickets earn miles on the airline.

The cons are:

1. You cannot convert points to miles in another program.
2. Merchandise rewards are limited and expensive.

I have MR, Diners, TY, and Merrill+ rewards. I personally like TY the best. However, I use my TY points for gift cards because I earn plenty of hotel and airline points elsewhere.

Another HUGE con is, you can not collect regular points with non PremierPass cards towards the Premier Pass account. So, even if you spend around $1,000 - 2,000 a month you still will be waiting around 10 month in order to redeem those 15k flight points.

Pro is you don't have to have AAdvantage Citi Card/USAirways/Alaska etc... since this card posts all the flight points to those FF programs and to TY network.

Looks like this card is good only for those who fly often anough to collect 100 000 flight points in an year and do spend at least 3k to 5k a month.

Hmmm.... Suppose you build up around 100,000 flight points on your PP Elite Card. The next $100,000 that you spend will earn 2 points per $. I am in that situation. It is not a bad scenario.

why go through this again? its a fine program, but different people want different things. thank you network really has no appeal to me personally.

I'd have to add a vote to the "deceptive" category, and I'm a lawyer. When I signed up for this card, I did know what I was getting into because I read everything closely, but the terms are certainly more hidden than most "hidden" terms in other cc offers. Just look at the ad link on top of this very page at this moment (not to mention all of the "funny" tv commercials, which never suggests that all points from these cards are unequal):

http://citi.bridgetrack.com/USC/05/P...C4BEFB01FFF88#

Anyway, this card has been worth it for me b/c of the bonus points, but I just don't think I'm going to keep it.

yeah it ain't in the fine print.

But as a lawyer you should know that cc cos do much worse than fail to provide full disclosure on their rewards programs.

Check out the movie Bull worth.

sadly it is the banks and insurance companies that have legislators in their hip pocket.

Its only in Jimmy Stewart's naive imagination that they represent the . And even this misconception is corrected as soon as he shows up in DC

This is wrong. I see the reason for the confusion: I meant Capital One, not Chase. The original posts have been fixed. Sorry for the error!

you dont need to fly 100k, you can earn flight points on other people's travel so long you bought their tix with their card. For many of us that we log much more than 100k BIS and spend far more than $100k/yr this card is a no brainer, PERIOD.
(ive done enough reading on this card my head is about to explode!)

then why do you keep posting in the following threads:

Premier Pass
Chairman
New Chairman

are you just trying to get your post count up? you can pad your post count int he AMEX threads....

Does this only work with the tickets you book on thankyou network via expedia? How about the fixed option like for 25K points you can get a RT ticket in US. Do those earn FF miles and upgrades as well?

Can anyone confirm? What does it say on the e-receipt? Any UA flyers here?

absolutely it works with the fixed-point option - that's the whole value of the program. Once the ticket is purchased, it looks to your airline for all practical purposes like you paid cash. You earn EQMs, EQSs, banked miles, upgrades, and whatever else UA throws your way.

Hello. I am new to this forum and found it while researching the Citi PP Elite card. I have already applied for it and can't wait to start using it! I got lucky and found the link to the offer with the annual fee waived. That same link now redirects to a different URL, so the offer is no longer there.

While reading various threads about the PP Elite, I noticed several complaints about the Flight Points redemption rules. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the PP card the only credit card to offer such points? Do any other CC companies give you flight points - redeemable on ANY airline - for the miles you fly, on top of the points earned for purchasing the ticket(s) with your CC?
If not, why would anyone complain about the PP's redemption rules?

For my spending and travel habits, the Citibank "ThankYou Network" was the most appealing. I currently have a CapitalOne MilesOne card for my business and a United Mileage Plus Visa for everything else, each earning separate points. Now, I can get a CitiBusiness PremierPass and a PremierPass Elite and combine points earned on the same ThankYou account. Who else offers this kind of flexibility? Aren't the Flight Points just icing on the cake?

P.S. No, I am not affiliated with Citibank. I just like what they offer :)

Complaints occur because Citi does a poor job of explaining the restrictions on redeeming Flight Points. In their advertising for the Premier Pass card they mention that you cannot earn more than 200,000 Thank You points per year and that no more than 100,000 of these can be Flight Points, but only after you receive the card may you realize that Flight Points are not redeemable until matched by Purchase Points. This doesn't mean that the program is poor, but it does mean that people receive the card, buy some airline tickets, think they have sufficient points to redeem for, say, an award flight only to discover that most of the Flight Points are unredeemable pending other transactions.

The other problem is that Citi has tweaked the Thank You program several times without notice, completely revamping the airline ticket award redemption process. This type of uncertainty makes it uncomfortable to accumulate points for an award that requires a substantial amount of spending.

This "substantial amount" you refer to only applies to Flight Points redemption, right? No one else offers these Flight Points, and if you took them out of the equation, the ThankYou Network still remains appealing compared to other programs, yes or no?

No, the Flight Points make Thank You competitive with airline programs.

For example, a business class trip from USA to Europe requires 100,000 or fewer miles in most airline frequent flyer programs, but requires 165,000 Thank You points using the Fixed Flight option. (It would require more using the Variable Flight option.)

To earn 100,000 miles using the Starwood Preferred Guest credit card requires $80,000 spending. $80,000 charged on Premier Pass would not generate 165,000 Thank You points if it were not for the Flight Points.

There are pros and cons to redeeming Thank You points versus airline miles for a specific trip, but without the Flight Points Thank You wouldn't even be in the game for this type of award. On the other hand, if you are primarily thinking in terms of gift card redemptions the Flight Points are a genuine bonus.

100K miles or fewer is really misleading as on most 3 class service airlines require less than 100K miles. Ie UAL and most Star members are 80K, AA and most One World Members are 90K.

Only Airlines that tend to charge 100K miles for bussiness class tickets are airlines that only offer 2 class service like Delta, US Airways, Virgin Atlantic etc.

Btw Citibank tries to route you when ever possible via AA as Citibank biggest partner is AA if AA does not offer the route they tend to go with US carriers in general so it could be possible you ended up getting routed via UAL who awards is even cheaper than AA. Airline awards allows open Jaw tickets and layovers while Citibank does not. Citibank awards also require sat night stay while airlines awards do not.

PPE is a great card for people who fly coach and only redem awards for coach travel because you can earn a coach ticket with as little as $12.5k in purchases vs $20K on starwood or $25K on most direct airlines cards.

Doubly so for those who redeem for coach around peak travel times. Since the redemption rate is fixed as long as you are booking 14 days out with the saturday night stay, it's possible to book trips on holiday weekends that are blacked out by the airlines' FF programs and quite expensive to pay for in cash. See the numerous examples of >2c/point redemptions in the big thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529921

and triply so for those who relish the EQMs, banked miles, upgrades, and other perks accrued with PAID travel, which is how TY Points tickets look to the airline. If you fly exactly 50,000 miles per year, you'll want your free flights to earn EQMs so you can maintain your status. TY Points help you do that, whereas *points, UA miles, NW miles etc do not.

Indeed, but the question is would you still use a Thank You Rewards card if there were no Flight Points and you earned only one point per dollar?

NO !!!!

BTW -- I know there were some questions about TY flight points at the end/start of a yr and how they credited...I had this problem come up as I have approx 40000 flight points to be credited this month with only 17k in spending from Jan 2007....

I called Chairman and they said that they would be held until you spend that much, so I aksed the CSR to look at the lifetime point total which shows way over on my purchase points, so he credited all 40k flight points for this month...

Also, points do not EXPIRE...as long as there is activity on the card...

I would certainly use my AT&T Universal Card which rewards 5% on everyday spending.

I would use my Citi Professional for 3% at restaurants.

Since TY points are worth 1.5-2 cents each, those cards give me a net of 4.5-10 cents back per dollar spent.

As for the Citi Premier Pass, even without the flight points I'd consider myself earning the equivalent of 1.5-2% cash back. So yes, I probably still would use it. I might use the SPG Amex a little more, just to have "reward diversity." But I wouldn't use the SPG Amex to send points to my airline accounts, because I don't need the miles - like most of us on FT, I have many hundreds of thousands of airline miles that I never redeem.

To me, the matching flight points with PPElite makes them the top program for my needs.

And east coasters could get a business class tix on BA or AA via CX Asia miles for $50,000 spend on *wood AX.

Its the other bonus points , in addition to the flight points that make it somewhat attractive. you need to be able to earn at GREATER than 200% to keep the program attractive.

AND its only attractive so long as BUSINESS CLASS FIXED POINTS OPTIONS, remain available. If Citi does away with this then we are all stuck with GAP gift certificates instead of international premium cabin travel:td:

I find this very very disconcerting and confusing.
I am honestly confused.
How can you say flight points don't expire??
I had no idea that you had to offset them in the same calendar year.
This is absurd in addition to Citi's other deceptive marketing practices.
You HAD to call and individually plead your case because your monthly spend was below your monthly flight points? :td:

This should be of no relevance!!:td:

You had a built up surplus of purchase points. Your $$$ points are greater than your FLIGHT points. Yet according to Citi you are not entitled to your flight points being credited!!!:td: :td:

But an exception was made for you because you are a good customer and were eagled eyed enough to call!!!!

And you brag that this is good Chairman service?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Anaggie , you are somewhat of a corporate apologist for CITI. ya ought to be on their P.R. Dept. payroll:D

IT seems to me that from your post that the official policy is a calender year flight point offset policy. IT's a yearly SPEND IT OR LOSE IT Policy.

I thought that flight points were earned based on you having spent an equal amount.

Am I missing something here??

Maybe we need a NEW thread title CITI SCAM --UNDISCLOSED ANNUAL EXPIRATION OF FLIGHT POINTS ELIGABLE FOR CONVERSION.

And you act like Citi is great for unscrewing you after you got an individual exception made. Perhaps they should not have screwed you to begin with!!

Anaggie, u do realize that now u need 23K in new spend before u get flight points converted immediately to redeemable TY points?

You were 'loaned' based on anticipated future spending upon your past spend being analyzed. From my read you will NOT get 1 for 1.

I'm going to disregard all the frantic screaming and yelling in your thread and focus on the factual inaccuracies instead.

There is no yearly spend it or lose it policy. You must keep your Thank You Point network account active, but that is completely separate from losing your flight points. Flight points 'rest' in your Chairman (or PP Elite) account indefinitely until they are matched by flight points. I know this from my own experience. What happened to anaggie was a simple error on Chairman's part in transferring the flight points to his TY point account. He called and got it resolved.

You are making something out of nothing.

Let's wait to hear from Anaggie. I'll allow for the possibility that I'm making something of nothing. I was wrong once or twice. I'd certainly allow for the possibilty that this is perhaps the third time;)

Fair enough. BTW, I think I overstated things by saying "indefinitely." I think it is actually 3 years. Don't know because I use my cards every day - but for those who don't a quick look through the T&Cs should address this.

Quick question-as I could not find it with the search or in this forum. Are the flight miles actual miles flown or as in short hops will I get 500 flights miles posted when I fly Indy to Chicago? I wanted to check since the T &C were ambiguous. Thanks.

Actual miles, no minimum.

[QUOTE I wanted to check since the T &C were ambiguous. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Yep, it certainly is.:mad:

this is a program and conept frought with ambiguity and 'maybes'.

by the time we accure enough ty points for two J tixs using fixed flight options, who knows if fixed flights in premium cabinwill still be offered?

I think that the adage, 'smoke em , if you got them" applies here.

There is something to be said for a mature program, ala AAvantage.
of course they can change the program , but I have often bought a rev. tix. in order to 'save' my AA miles for a better value redemption.

I ain't doing this with TY!
First decent value fixed flight redemption, I will cash in.

ok...so maybe "writetorich" misunderstood my post....

Flight points are held in your Chairman as long as you keep it active.....now since this was a JAN statement and these flight were to be in Jan...so one would actually get the flight points credit 6-8 weeks after the flight has commenced.

Bu since I am a "GREAT DEADBEAT"....they will credit approx 40k flight points this month because of my surplus I have built up....

So, cust service from Chairman is still good beause I am getting the flight points by end of FEB instead of April....

Yep, it certainly is.:mad:

For old dogs...yes...for young new pups...easy to undertand and fuigure out :cool: :cool:

this is a program and conept frought with ambiguity and 'maybes'.

no it is not....read the fine print...and ask questions

by the time we accure enough ty points for two J tixs using fixed flight options, who knows if fixed flights in premium cabinwill still be offered?

I have been with this program since OCT 2004 -- no devaluation...and premium class tickets are still being offered

I think that the adage, 'smoke em , if you got them" applies here.

There is something to be said for a mature program, ala AAvantage.
of course they can change the program , but I have often bought a rev. tix. in order to 'save' my AA miles for a better value redemption.

I ain't doing this with TY!
First decent value fixed flight redemption, I will cash in.[/QUOTE]

There are some very good values out there..just try not to end up with a closet full of GAP sweaters....:cool: :cool:

Rereading post #68 and post #78 I still don't understand what the customer service agent did or why. Did he credit Flight Points for flights not yet flown, or did he convert Flight Points to redeemable Thank You Points before you matched them with Purchase Points, or both, or something else :confused: ?