Definition of Churning?
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 287
Definition of Churning?
I was wondering if there is an official definition for churning.
For the past 5 years or so my wife and I have opened 1 or 2 cards a year to take advantage of mile/point promotions (that we receive in the mail). We typically get the card for it's large opening bonus, spend with it until we reach a desired mile/point threshold for an award, and then close it after about a year before the annual fee comes.
To the best of my recollection, here are the programs we have joined:
2002: 1/2 mile UAL Visa
2003: Delta Amex
2004: AA Mastercard
2005: UAL Visa, Marriott Visa
2006: Starwood Amex, Juniper Usair, AA Mastercard
Would we be considered churners? Or is the term meant for people who open and close 10 cards a year or something like that?
For the past 5 years or so my wife and I have opened 1 or 2 cards a year to take advantage of mile/point promotions (that we receive in the mail). We typically get the card for it's large opening bonus, spend with it until we reach a desired mile/point threshold for an award, and then close it after about a year before the annual fee comes.
To the best of my recollection, here are the programs we have joined:
2002: 1/2 mile UAL Visa
2003: Delta Amex
2004: AA Mastercard
2005: UAL Visa, Marriott Visa
2006: Starwood Amex, Juniper Usair, AA Mastercard
Would we be considered churners? Or is the term meant for people who open and close 10 cards a year or something like that?
#3
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: UA 1k, AA Plt, MR Lifetime Plat & Amb
Posts: 1,829
Originally Posted by Mr. S
Would we be considered churners?
Originally Posted by Mr. S
For the past 5 years or so my wife and I have opened 1 or 2 cards a year to take advantage of mile/point promotions (that we receive in the mail). We typically get the card for it's large opening bonus, spend with it until we reach a desired mile/point threshold for an award, and then close it after about a year before the annual fee comes.
#5
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AA, UA, USAir, Hawaiian, Southworst, HHonors, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 83
well everytime you open and close a credit card your credit score takes a hit from 5-10 points. The norm is that if you close a credit card, best to have it be open for 1.5 yrs so that you do not take a hit. Also if you have excessive amounts of credit your score will go down.
#6
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures




Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
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I would say that churning means opening, collecting the enrollment or activation bonus, closing, and then reapplying for the same card to repeat the cycle. I don't think the number of cards is relevant.
#7
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: American, United
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by mia
I would say that churning means opening, collecting the enrollment or activation bonus, closing, and then reapplying for the same card to repeat the cycle. I don't think the number of cards is relevant.
#8
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures




Join Date: Jun 2003
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Posts: 51,864
I did not mean that the number of cards would not affect the credit score, only that it is not relevant to what I understand by the term churning.
#9
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: EWR
Programs: AA PLT, CO GLD, UA 1P, Marriott SLVR, SPG GLD...
Posts: 257
It is almost never a good idea to close existing credit cards, as doing so brings down your total available credit and average account length, which hurt your credit score. I personally wouldn't close any card that's been open for more than a year.
If the airline/hotel program allows only one open card at a time to qualify for the bonuses, you can simply convert the existing FF card to a non-FF card offered by the same issuer (citi, Amex, etc.) If multiple cards are allowed, you don't even have to convert--just leave the card in your sock drawer and forget about it.
If the airline/hotel program allows only one open card at a time to qualify for the bonuses, you can simply convert the existing FF card to a non-FF card offered by the same issuer (citi, Amex, etc.) If multiple cards are allowed, you don't even have to convert--just leave the card in your sock drawer and forget about it.
#10
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: UA 1k, AA Plt, MR Lifetime Plat & Amb
Posts: 1,829
Originally Posted by ethiopianbuffman
well everytime you open and close a credit card your credit score takes a hit from 5-10 points.
If you open just one card and close it after the points post then you have churned. Everything else is just rate and volume.
Last edited by Dudemon; Sep 11, 2006 at 1:01 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Khyber Pakhtunkhwa
Posts: 1,949
Originally Posted by ethiopianbuffman
well everytime you open and close a credit card your credit score takes a hit from 5-10 points.
When you APPLY for a new CC (regardless of whether the application is actually approved and opened), your credit score takes a TEMPORARY 4-5 point hit which disappears after 7 or 8 months.
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you could get a bunch of new cards, take a temporary hit to your credit rating, and your rating would be back to its previous level after a year. The only possible harm is if you are applying for a loan or going through some other process involving your credit rating during that year, and even then it's not definite that your lower rating would hurt you.
#13




Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,658
You are mostly correct. ( I only qualify that sometimes / occassionnally the CC companies do not act rationally.)
Originally Posted by Thunderroad
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you could get a bunch of new cards, take a temporary hit to your credit rating, and your rating would be back to its previous level after a year. The only possible harm is if you are applying for a loan or going through some other process involving your credit rating during that year, and even then it's not definite that your lower rating would hurt you.
Last edited by best; Oct 7, 2006 at 7:02 pm

