Last edit by: philemer
NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR NEW APPLICANTS, 10/5/18).
Barclays Arrival Premier costs $150/year, with first year waived but no new account bonus offer. Barclays calls Arrival rewards points "miles".
Arrival Premier earns two "miles" per dollar on all spending, with a 15,000 "mile" bonus awarded at $15,000 and another 10,000 at $25,000 in a year.
Arrival Premier "miles" are transferable to ten airlines, including members of all three international alliances, plus two independent carriers.
To compare with other cards, look at the ratio of dollars spent to airlines miles earned:
One World
Japan Airlines
Malaysia Airlines
Qantas
Skyteam
Aeromexico
China Eastern
Flying Blue
Star Alliance
EVA Air
Aeroplan
Independent
Etihad
Jet Privilege
Barclays Arrival Premier costs $150/year, with first year waived but no new account bonus offer. Barclays calls Arrival rewards points "miles".
Arrival Premier earns two "miles" per dollar on all spending, with a 15,000 "mile" bonus awarded at $15,000 and another 10,000 at $25,000 in a year.
Arrival Premier "miles" are transferable to ten airlines, including members of all three international alliances, plus two independent carriers.
To compare with other cards, look at the ratio of dollars spent to airlines miles earned:
Base transfer ratio is $1 = 2 Arrival "miles" = 1.42 airline miles (Exception: Japan Airlines and Aeroplan, $1 = 2 Arrival = 1.175 airline miles )
If you spend $15,000 -or- $25,000 there is a 50% bonus: $1 = 3 Arrival "miles" = 2.14 airline miles (or 1.76 Japan Airlines or Aeroplan miles)
Transfer partners If you spend $15,000 -or- $25,000 there is a 50% bonus: $1 = 3 Arrival "miles" = 2.14 airline miles (or 1.76 Japan Airlines or Aeroplan miles)
One World
Japan Airlines
Malaysia Airlines
Qantas
Skyteam
Aeromexico
China Eastern
Flying Blue
Star Alliance
EVA Air
Aeroplan
Independent
Etihad
Jet Privilege
Barclays Arrival “Premier” (DOA RIP)
#62
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: UA Au Marriott Ti Hilton C
Posts: 159
I’ve thought about this one and, to borrow a phrase from another poster, it looks like a “turd” alright.
If we operate under the assumption that the people at Barclays aren’t all complete idiots, then what happened here? (And yes, I realize that many folks here think that they are, in fact, complete idiots.)
As a person that’s been in large corporations for the better part of my life, I have a couple theories:
1. They aren’t trying to be competitive with Chase and Amex; instead, they want an offering (“See? We have transfer partners, too!”) that can be used to minimize the bleed of their high end customers to the aforementioned issuers.
2. The marketing folks were well aware that this thing is a dog and got overruled by the powers that be. Whether this was a smart decision remains to be seen.
As a Chase fan that spent over $50K on CSR last year plus additional spend on a couple other UR cards with secondary spending on Amex SPG, I am presumably the kind of customer that they want to attract.
The problem for them is that Chase has effectively built a barrier to entry since it’s a hassle for me to apply for cards, deal with a new online system, etc. These aren’t huge issues, but they are non-zero and Barclays has to create an incentive to attract someone like me.
To put it mildly, they’ve failed to create that incentive.
A previous megacorp that I worked for launched a product that was the same price, but with far less features than the competition’s product. I did not work in that division, but it surprised none of us when this thing promptly sank without a trace.
Sound familiar?
If we operate under the assumption that the people at Barclays aren’t all complete idiots, then what happened here? (And yes, I realize that many folks here think that they are, in fact, complete idiots.)
As a person that’s been in large corporations for the better part of my life, I have a couple theories:
1. They aren’t trying to be competitive with Chase and Amex; instead, they want an offering (“See? We have transfer partners, too!”) that can be used to minimize the bleed of their high end customers to the aforementioned issuers.
2. The marketing folks were well aware that this thing is a dog and got overruled by the powers that be. Whether this was a smart decision remains to be seen.
As a Chase fan that spent over $50K on CSR last year plus additional spend on a couple other UR cards with secondary spending on Amex SPG, I am presumably the kind of customer that they want to attract.
The problem for them is that Chase has effectively built a barrier to entry since it’s a hassle for me to apply for cards, deal with a new online system, etc. These aren’t huge issues, but they are non-zero and Barclays has to create an incentive to attract someone like me.
To put it mildly, they’ve failed to create that incentive.
A previous megacorp that I worked for launched a product that was the same price, but with far less features than the competition’s product. I did not work in that division, but it surprised none of us when this thing promptly sank without a trace.
Sound familiar?
Last edited by 1120; Apr 5, 2018 at 2:06 pm
#63
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
#64
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 805
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that a lot of established businesses are led by people who think they can tell the market what to buy instead of listening to the market. Then they also blame the market when they take their golden parachute.
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
There's another bank totally based on looking for people who know no better.
Perhaps they're hoping that they can hire Jennifer Garner away from Cap One to tout: "Now here's another card from another bank that gives you double miles on everything!"
Ie, if one bank's whole advertising is based on "double miles for everything", why not another bank?
The average Joe Blow doesn't know what miles are, doesn't know that double of meaningless miles is still meaningless, and just assumes that "double" must be much better than other cards that don't give you "double".
Perhaps they're hoping that they can hire Jennifer Garner away from Cap One to tout: "Now here's another card from another bank that gives you double miles on everything!"
Ie, if one bank's whole advertising is based on "double miles for everything", why not another bank?
The average Joe Blow doesn't know what miles are, doesn't know that double of meaningless miles is still meaningless, and just assumes that "double" must be much better than other cards that don't give you "double".
#66
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
There's another bank totally based on looking for people who know no better.
Perhaps they're hoping that they can hire Jennifer Garner away from Cap One to tout: "Now here's another card from another bank that gives you double miles on everything!"
Ie, if one bank's whole advertising is based on "double miles for everything", why not another bank?
The average Joe Blow doesn't know what miles are, doesn't know that double of meaningless miles is still meaningless, and just assumes that "double" must be much better than other cards that don't give you "double".
Perhaps they're hoping that they can hire Jennifer Garner away from Cap One to tout: "Now here's another card from another bank that gives you double miles on everything!"
Ie, if one bank's whole advertising is based on "double miles for everything", why not another bank?
The average Joe Blow doesn't know what miles are, doesn't know that double of meaningless miles is still meaningless, and just assumes that "double" must be much better than other cards that don't give you "double".
#67
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I'm surprised Capital One and Discover haven't been sued for misleading customers. "Miles" are airline points. Credit cards do not earn miles unless they're co-branded with an airline. At least after they get sued, they'll wake up and change the name of their cards to something like "double points."
#68
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
If so it would be a frivolous lawsuit. There isn't anything that limits the use of "miles" to airline loyalty programs just because that's the most common usage. Some airlines don't even call their loyalty currency "miles". Cap1's T&Cs clearly spell out how their scheme works in terms of earning and redemption values, so the moniker they apply is irrelevant. Sure their ads make an apples-to-oranges comparison to "those airline cards" but it's no worse than some of the marketing done by the airlines or the differences in redemption rates and availability compared between any two airline programs.
I think the bigger fraud is that they market that garbage Venture card for $95 a year when most cards are better, more particularly before C.O starting giving 10x/dollar at Hotels.com.
#69
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 756
As predicted, this card is a dud. 1.4-1.7:1 transfer ratio to airline partners is laughable. I would like to see anyone defend this card now because this is one of the worst premium cards to get for a whopping $150 AF.
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
OTOH, it's a very weird group of airlines, with AA and JetBlue (the domestic airlines for which Barclay issues cards) so notably absent. (Not that Citi TYP's transfer partner list is that much better, but the Citi TYP Premier card only has a $95 AF and full transferabliity.)
#71
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 756
But that's after earning 2 miles per dollar on everything. So relative to dollars spent, isn't it a decent 0.7-0.85:1, which is a bit better than 1:1?
OTOH, it's a very weird group of airlines, with AA and JetBlue (the domestic airlines for which Barclay issues cards) so notably absent. (Not that Citi TYP's transfer partner list is that much better, but the Citi TYP Premier card only has a $95 AF and full transferabliity.)
OTOH, it's a very weird group of airlines, with AA and JetBlue (the domestic airlines for which Barclay issues cards) so notably absent. (Not that Citi TYP's transfer partner list is that much better, but the Citi TYP Premier card only has a $95 AF and full transferabliity.)
You also need to factor in the $150 AF hit and you already have a pretty big whole to dig yourself out of before this become beneficial with marginally side benefits. CSR is effectively $150 ($450 AF-$300 annual travel credit) and gives more benefits. I can go on, but the math just doesn't add up for the average spender.
#72
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,978
But that's after earning 2 miles per dollar on everything. So relative to dollars spent, isn't it a decent 0.7-0.85:1, which is a bit better than 1:1?
OTOH, it's a very weird group of airlines, with AA and JetBlue (the domestic airlines for which Barclay issues cards) so notably absent. (Not that Citi TYP's transfer partner list is that much better, but the Citi TYP Premier card only has a $95 AF and full transferabliity.)
OTOH, it's a very weird group of airlines, with AA and JetBlue (the domestic airlines for which Barclay issues cards) so notably absent. (Not that Citi TYP's transfer partner list is that much better, but the Citi TYP Premier card only has a $95 AF and full transferabliity.)
#74
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BOS/MHT/PVD/BDL
Programs: Belong to Many but No Longer Loyal to Any
Posts: 880
Another strike against this card...If I'm going to use up one of my 5/24s, it has to be a rock solid deal. This is not.
5/24, however, isn't probably be a factor for John Q. Public, just those of us playing the game.
5/24, however, isn't probably be a factor for John Q. Public, just those of us playing the game.