mikesyr18

Visa allows the merchant to check for ID.

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/visa-rules.html

I can't seem to find the rules for the others, though.

mikesyr18

Am I the only one who gets annoyed at people going full out with the signature on either the electronic pad or on the receipt, as if the signature actually matters? Lol.

People will literally sit there for 30 seconds and sign their actual signature that has to look all fancy.

mia

It's relevant if you dispute a transaction. The issuer can compare the signature for that transaction with other transactions (not with the signature on the back of the card, and not with the signature on paper documents).

kayanco

LOL ... maybe some folks do expect that the cashier will next ask for their card and compare the signatures

Happy

I seriously doubt it.

The "signatures" on those pads never look the same when I signed them. I forgot which retailers, they actually tell you to use your finger to do it. Plus I encounter retailers their "pen" is completely broken and the cashiers said it was OK. Just touch it despite no mark ever shown. Sure enough the POS spit out the receipt. IIRC, that even happens at Publix a few times, and if you recall, it took Publix 2 years to finally adopt the PIN enable POS after the initial required deadline. Last week I bought the Shell GC with the $10 off $50 coupon after spending $50+ grocery stacking with the AMEX Offer on my EVD - earned 1500 pts with a $100+ transaction at grocery store - so the transaction was slightly over $100. Same laughable "signature" formality. Cashier did not bat an eyelid.

Now just enlighten me, exactly how the merchants to compare your "signature" with other transactions which they may not have any way to obtain the images to begin with? And all the time, the "signature" is just a wavy line...

May be in big $ purchases the merchants are more careful. Though the $ threshold might be over a Thousand or whatever. The other day I spent just over $1K at BBY, the cashier sure did not pay any attention on the signatures done on the pad, nor verify any ID.

AllieKat

It's basically impossible in most countries as contactless magstripe mode will be declined. In the US, preplay attacks are plausible because issuers allow insecure transaction submission methods. I do actually expect this fraud to get more common in the US, as the much easier fraud of magstripe skimming becomes harder.

That said, it's never going to come close to magstripe fraud levels, also some banks (even in the US) do reject these insecure transactions, and more will in future.

kayanco

Fully agree with this post.

The signature is just a relic, it's mostly to just acknowledge the sale. Let's say you get the long Macy's receipt, "signing" it means you acknowledge the receipt, e.g. the return policy, etc.

If there's a dispute, the signature matching or not matching won't be a determining factor.

tmiw

There are still new businesses opening in my area with only magstripe readers, never mind EMV or contactless. I think it'll be quite a while until contactless penetration is high enough for that to possibly be a concern, and even then committing fraud online is going to be a lot less hassle.

84fiero

MasterCard recently announced that in April they will no longer require customers to sign for purchases (though I didn't see any mention of a change to signing the card). I believe merchants can still optionally require a signature on for the purchase, but aren't required to after that point.

But as for signing the card, it is pointless but I still do it - been habit for ~25 years so it's just automatic when I get a card. Besides I'm not worried about someone stealing my signature from the card. For one thing my progressively worsening Essential Tremor makes my signature rarely the same - in fact I can hardly write legibly at all anymore without really concentrating. And for anyone who knows my full name and a bit of other info, my signature is on lots of publicly available documents if someone really wanted to try and clone it. Even if it weren't for those factors though I wouldn't be worried about signature theft from the CC.

I do occasionally encounter requests to see my ID outside the US. Sure in some cases perhaps they aren't supposed to be asking but what are you going to do, argue with a 16 year old cashier, in another language, about what their merchant agreement supposedly says...or just do it and get on with your day?

My local post office at least is quite strict about not accepting a CC that isn't signed. Though they don't ask for ID nor compare the signature - not that they could really compare, given the electronic signature pads nowadays, as others have noted.

tmiw

Yep. I haven't heard anything about the other networks following suit, though. Considering that and the fact that a lot of merchants still ask for signature even when it's already not required, I'm not sure how much impact this rule change will really have. (Not to mention that this apparently applies only to the US and Canada; other countries would presumably still require signature for most/all transactions.)

mikesyr18

Those readers shouldn't be produced anymore. Not sure why they would be if America is moving forward with chip and contactless.

mia

If you dispute an unrecognized transaction the issuer will produce a signature if one was collected. If you assert that it is not your signature it can be compared with signatures collected at other transactions. This would be done by the issuer or the network, not by a merchant.

tmiw

At least one of those places that I'm thinking of uses a Clover Station, which could easily support a chip enabled reader if they wanted to. The "why don't they" question is more suitable for the EMV thread, though.

storewanderer

Visa does not allow the merchant to require ID. They can be reported here:
https://usa.visa.com/Forms/visa-rules.html

Mastercard, same rules, they can be reported here:
https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/cons...-shopping.html

I've heard American Express and Discover allow the merchant to require ID. However, American Express does not allow a merchant to impose rules on American Express Cards that are not imposed on other cards (such as the poster above who said his merchant required ID for American Express but not other network's signed cards) so by default if a merchant accepts Visa and/or MasterCard, they cannot impose an ID requirement on American Express cards.

mikesyr18

... As a condition of Visa card acceptance.

That means at one particular merchant, Visa cardholders can't be asked for ID while AMEX cardholders are able to insert the chip and just leave after the transaction has been approved.

So if a merchant takes only Visa cards (Costco) they can ask for ID if they really want to, or if they require all cardholders to show ID regardless of network used, they can ask Visa cardholders for ID.

On that page, Visa says a merchant is permitted to ask for ID.