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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Oct 9, 2019, 3:10 pm
  #5716  
 
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I managed to get in touch with the VP at UNFCU responsible for payment cards. I asked about the move away from offline pin; this was the response:
  • Contactless is now almost 50% of all transactions outside the US. It's growing rapidly in the US too, and generally the way of the future.
  • UNFCU has been using the same chip in credit cards since 2010. It's end-of-life and Visa would not certify it for new issuance going forward (he didn't say if the reason is specifically offline PIN, or if Visa would be denying ALL offline-PIN-supporting chips to US issuers.) So, UNFCU had to select a new chip for cards going forward.
  • UNFCU decided they wanted to use the same chip in credit and debit cards, for internal efficiency.
  • UNFCU first launched EMV credit cards in 2010; at that time, only offline PIN was available for EMV credit cards.
  • "the online chip had become the standard and is the now the default for US based card issuers."
  • Online PIN lets customers change PIN online.
  • PIN is still preferred in the CVM list, so customer experiences outside the US will not change (his words, not mine.)

So basically, their opinion is that PIN is PIN, and online PIN will work just as well as offline PIN did at merchants and kiosks (and, PIN doesn't even really matter because, contactless.) I'm not sure that's really true, but I certainly can't prove it.

So, either it's true, and an online-PIN-preferring card really is just as good as an offline-PIN-preferring card, or it isn't and (hopefully) customers will complain when their new cards start failing where the old ones worked.

Incidentally, while trying to find this VP, I discovered that the prior VP of payment cards at UNFCU (who launched EMV in 2010 and was very vocal about PIN preference) left a few years ago and now works at Apple. I wonder if they'd have made the same decision if he was still there.

Last edited by bullfrog; Oct 9, 2019 at 3:22 pm
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Old Oct 9, 2019, 7:01 pm
  #5717  
 
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Originally Posted by HotelHacker
Funny you should mention that, I was in Tokyo last week and noticed a few cashiers would in fact check the signature with the back of the card. Hadn't seen anyone do that in probably 20 years. JR East had a sign in Narita airport saying that CCs weren't accepted but I paid at the counter and they just swiped it.

Japan was a real mixed bag with how they handled CCs. Some did EMV, some didn't, and contactless isn't very common over there. I saw someone trying to pay with the phone at a Starbucks, it was funny seeing the cashier explain that they needed the card without being able to actually say it.

One odd thing they did have that we don't; you can pay at many stores with your contactless transit card. It's not a CC though, it's a prepaid card you get at a train station.
I've always had good luck with US-issued cards at the counter at JR East, however over the past year or so they have begun limiting hours or dropping the ability to purchase tickets at the counters at many smaller stations. There definitely seems to be a concerted effort to make people to use the kiosks. That said, this likely won't be an issue for tourists who don't go off the beaten trail, but it is an issue if you are living away from the big cities.

Not to discount your experience, but as it turns out you can pay with Android phones at Starbucks *if* it supports FeliCa and you've downloaded and set up the Starbucks Japan app. You can create a virtual contactless card that can be loaded in person from either cash or credit card, or through the app with a credit card. The language barrier is real, though! Did the cashier try making a big "X" with her arms to tell the person they couldn't pay with their phone?

There are a few different categories of domestic FeliCa-based contactless. iD and QuicPay were both traditionally linked directly to credit cards, though recently there are prepaid and debit versions. Edy, WAON and nanaco are pre-paid non-transit cards. Suica (one of the pre-paid transit cards) can be setup on Android phones that have FeliCa support and loaded with a credit card. No luck loading from my BoA travel rewards card, though one of my AMEX cards did work. I don't have an iPhone, but it appears that both domestic and non-Japanese versions all support FeliCa/Suica.

As another side note .. there are apparently contractual issues which have prevented EMV contactless in Google Pay/Apple Pay in Japan. Instead, cards can be added and enabled as either iD or QuikPay (depending on the issuer). One of the issues preventing widespread physical EMV contactless cards in Japan is restrictions on having a domestic FeliCa payment method in addition to EMV contactless on the same card. One of the larger card issuers, AEON, apparently managed to cut a deal with Visa and will start issuing dual-mode contactless (WAON + EMV) cards in the near future.
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Old Oct 9, 2019, 8:10 pm
  #5718  
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So I got an email from UNFCU in effect asking why I'm asking for an early reissue when there's still 2 years left on the card. I plan on mentioning that it's because of contactless. Hopefully they still process the request. (Usually issuers send me new cards with no questions asked, so one challenging it is a bit of a negative mark on them.)

Originally Posted by bullfrog
It's growing rapidly in the US too, and generally the way of the future.
I wonder if Visa's going to release usage numbers for the US next year or if they're going to take the Apple approach of claiming that it "grew by 100%" (or whatever) and not mention that it's based on very low starting usage. If they do the former, I'll take that as a very good sign for adoption. (Note that it was supposedly 0.5-0.75ish% of card transactions last we've heard.)

Originally Posted by bullfrog
It's end-of-life and Visa would not certify it for new issuance going forward
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the actual chips are subject to EMVco approvals too, and as with terminals such approvals are not forever. Whether a new chip that can do offline PIN exists, however, is a different issue. It may take a few more years before we can be sure either way.

Originally Posted by bullfrog
PIN is still preferred in the CVM list, so customer experiences outside the US will not change (his words, not mine.)
But it will, though, depending on the country. Assuming one doesn't use contactless, it very well means that the card is effectively signature-only if the country in question doesn't do online PIN.

That said, if customer experience is judged by whether a terminal will actually run the card and print out a receipt, then he's technically correct (the best kind of correct!)
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Old Oct 9, 2019, 8:15 pm
  #5719  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
So I got an email from UNFCU in effect asking why I'm asking for an early reissue when there's still 2 years left on the card. I plan on mentioning that it's because of contactless. Hopefully they still process the request. (Usually issuers send me new cards with no questions asked, so one challenging it is a bit of a negative mark
Same when I requested my new credit card. Said I wanted a contactless card and they processed it, no problem.
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Old Oct 9, 2019, 8:20 pm
  #5720  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
But it will, though, depending on the country. Assuming one doesn't use contactless, it very well means that the card is effectively signature-only if the country in question doesn't do online PIN.

That said, if customer experience is judged by whether a terminal will actually run the card and print out a receipt, then he's technically correct (the best kind of correct!)
I worry about an unattended kiosk that doesn’t do contactless, and either chokes on online-PIN and never makes it to No CVM, or one that ONLY supports offline-PIN, full stop.

I don’t have any evidence that either of those exists. I *do* know that I’ve never heard of any terminal, attended or otherwise, that couldn’t handle offline PIN.
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Old Oct 9, 2019, 8:30 pm
  #5721  
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Originally Posted by bullfrog
I worry about an unattended kiosk that doesn’t do contactless, and either chokes on online-PIN and never makes it to No CVM, or one that ONLY supports offline-PIN, full stop.

I don’t have any evidence that either of those exists. I *do* know that I’ve never heard of any terminal, attended or otherwise, that couldn’t handle offline PIN.
Theoretically, contactless support is mandatory for all terminals in the EU by the end of the year (IIRC), which should bypass the offline PIN problem there. Presumably, this includes unattended terminals as well as attended ones.

In practice, I suspect that'll be the case the vast majority of the time but there'll be occasional reports on FT about terminals without it, much like now with inserting signature-only cards. In that scenario, however, I imagine most of the non-contactless terminals will still be okay with signature only cards. Time will tell, I suppose.
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Old Oct 10, 2019, 11:51 am
  #5722  
 
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The local MAPCO recently got new EMV terminals at the pump. With my PIN-priority Andrews card I was asked for both ZIP and PIN. Contactless is a bit wonky -- my physical AMEX card works (and doesn't even prompt for a ZIP), but shows up as a "swipe" card entry. I also tried two cards in Google Pay (a Barclays Mastercard and a Visa), but both came up with "See attendant." Inside they told me it said card declined and that it was probably because they didn't have Google Pay enabled yet. I called Barclays and they told me they didn't see the transaction at all. So it seems like contactless is only running in MSD mode? I thought that Google Pay was able to drop down to MSD contactless when necessary .. is that not correct, or is something else going on here?

For anyone who's interested, here's a link to the press release and a few photos of the terminals:

MAPCO Selects Gilbarco's Passport Point-of-Sale System to Drive Business Growth



...
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Old Oct 10, 2019, 8:45 pm
  #5723  
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Originally Posted by scout7
So it seems like contactless is only running in MSD mode? I thought that Google Pay was able to drop down to MSD contactless when necessary .. is that not correct, or is something else going on here?
It is. There's probably something else going on that's causing contactless to decline without going online. I presume contactless works fine inside?
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Old Oct 10, 2019, 9:26 pm
  #5724  
 
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I had an unusual experience at the Kroger gas station tonight. I used my SDFCU card which is offline PIN. I inserted the card, entered my PIN, the screen says "Do not remove card", then I hear it click as the terminal releases the card reader from the chip. I remove the card even though the screen says not to remove it. As soon as I do, it prints out a receipt that says "EMV Decline". No reason is given for the decline and the receipt shows "Verified by PIN" on it. Nothing seemed to be charged to my account.

Then I tried again and left the card in until it told me to remove it which was about 3 or 4 seconds after hearing the click. This time it worked normally. I'm not sure why it knows or cares if you remove the card once it has disconnected from the chip reader, but apparently it does.
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Old Oct 10, 2019, 9:47 pm
  #5725  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
It is. There's probably something else going on that's causing contactless to decline without going online. I presume contactless works fine inside?
That's a good question. I've never had a need to buy something inside there.. I'll give it a try!
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Old Oct 10, 2019, 10:00 pm
  #5726  
 
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
I had an unusual experience at the Kroger gas station tonight. I used my SDFCU card which is offline PIN. I inserted the card, entered my PIN, the screen says "Do not remove card", then I hear it click as the terminal releases the card reader from the chip. I remove the card even though the screen says not to remove it. As soon as I do, it prints out a receipt that says "EMV Decline". No reason is given for the decline and the receipt shows "Verified by PIN" on it. Nothing seemed to be charged to my account.

Then I tried again and left the card in until it told me to remove it which was about 3 or 4 seconds after hearing the click. This time it worked normally. I'm not sure why it knows or cares if you remove the card once it has disconnected from the chip reader, but apparently it does.
The terminal hadn't finished processing the transaction, yet. That's why it don't you not to remove it, yet
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Old Oct 11, 2019, 2:31 pm
  #5727  
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
I had an unusual experience at the Kroger gas station tonight. I used my SDFCU card which is offline PIN. I inserted the card, entered my PIN, the screen says "Do not remove card", then I hear it click as the terminal releases the card reader from the chip. I remove the card even though the screen says not to remove it. As soon as I do, it prints out a receipt that says "EMV Decline". No reason is given for the decline and the receipt shows "Verified by PIN" on it. Nothing seemed to be charged to my account.

Then I tried again and left the card in until it told me to remove it which was about 3 or 4 seconds after hearing the click. This time it worked normally. I'm not sure why it knows or cares if you remove the card once it has disconnected from the chip reader, but apparently it does.
I have pulled my card out the moment it clicks and it still processes.

The only EMV Declines I've had have been when trying to use a Visa in the Smiths pump (which obviously does not work at this time since they don't accept Visa there).
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Old Oct 11, 2019, 3:34 pm
  #5728  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
The only EMV Declines I've had have been when trying to use a Visa in the Smiths pump (which obviously does not work at this time since they don't accept Visa there).
I'm surprised Kroger's still sticking with the whole "not taking Visa" thing. I would have imagined they'd go back on it pretty quickly (even if it they spun it as coming up with a good deal).
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Old Oct 11, 2019, 3:46 pm
  #5729  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I'm surprised Kroger's still sticking with the whole "not taking Visa" thing. I would have imagined they'd go back on it pretty quickly (even if it they spun it as coming up with a good deal).
They do accept Visa at Kroger branded stores, but I believe they don't at any of the other brands they own. I know I can use it at both the gas station and in the stores themselves.
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Old Oct 11, 2019, 4:20 pm
  #5730  
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
They do accept Visa at Kroger branded stores, but I believe they don't at any of the other brands they own. I know I can use it at both the gas station and in the stores themselves.
Visa's accepted at all of them except for Smith's and one other one, IIRC.
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