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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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2012-2015 2016

What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Mar 18, 2019, 9:08 pm
  #4936  
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Article about EMV and gas pumps in the US. Funny nobody acknowledges Safeway has it active... that is clearly the biggest user so far. And I have no clue what that point of sale they use for gas with their Wayne pumps is. It seems to be some one off for just them. It is a different software than the IBM in the store. They do have the IBM "talking" to the gas POS to process cash or in-store transactions for fuel, but it is separate software.

https://www.cspdailynews.com/technol...-emv-goal-line
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Old Mar 19, 2019, 2:11 am
  #4937  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
Article about EMV and gas pumps in the US. Funny nobody acknowledges Safeway has it active... that is clearly the biggest user so far. And I have no clue what that point of sale they use for gas with their Wayne pumps is. It seems to be some one off for just them. It is a different software than the IBM in the store. They do have the IBM "talking" to the gas POS to process cash or in-store transactions for fuel, but it is separate software.

https://www.cspdailynews.com/technol...-emv-goal-line
Sounds like EMV probably should have been made mandatory by law/network rules, with financial assistance provided as needed--instead of through a liability shift that might never cause significant financial consequences for some.

Even Joshua Smith, founder and CEO of Gas Pos, a company based in North Little Rock, Ark., that specializes in EMV-compliant POS devices, is less than bullish on EMV.

“There isn’t really a good ROI (return on investment) on EMV compliance,” says Smith. “ROI might be in 15-20 years on a device that has a five-year life expectancy. I can only imagine their frustration.”
The question now is how many merchants (both fuel and otherwise) simply don't bother.

Also, only 40% of new dispensers/upgrade kits with contactless support might mean that we'll be waiting a while for that to become commonplace outside.
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Old Mar 19, 2019, 7:51 pm
  #4938  
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Surprisingly, a restaurant I went to today that looked like they used Toast's built-in chip reader instead brought the pay at the table device. Of course, it showed exact dollar amounts for tip instead of percentages, which makes it easy to tip way more than you want. Not sure if that's just because the order was small or if it's a setting restaurants can change.

Anyway, Toast's pay at the table implementation might be one of the less good ones, IMO, simply because of how weird tipping is on it. If it weren't for that and a lack of contactless I'd say it was decent otherwise.
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Old Mar 19, 2019, 10:45 pm
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Just in case someone needs it I'll post this:

Code:
./configure LUA_CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include" LUA_LIBS="-L/usr/local/lib -llua -lm -ldl"
That is what you need to do in the Cardpeek source directory after you have compiled LUA 5.2. Of course this is for CentOS 7, if your distro has LUA 5.2 package already it should make life a lot easier.

On a more related note:
I've noticed most Shell stations seem to have the EMV-ready equipment on the forecourt. I wonder if they'll be 'flipping the switch' anytime soon.
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 11:54 am
  #4940  
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Phillips 66 is starting to roll out outdoor EMV now. Might be worth checking out 76 stations around here to see which end up getting the update (though I'm not sure I've seen any with the needed outdoor readers recently).

https://cstoredecisions.com/2019/03/...uel-dispenser/
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 9:47 pm
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Phillips 66 is starting to roll out outdoor EMV now. Might be worth checking out 76 stations around here to see which end up getting the update (though I'm not sure I've seen any with the needed outdoor readers recently).

https://cstoredecisions.com/2019/03/...uel-dispenser/
I know of a few 76 stations that have EMV-ready pump hardware near me.

Reno, NV - Thomas Creek Road - uses Verifone registers, not sure they are certified yet
Incline Village, NV - brand new pumps, has NFC and uses Gilbarco registers, probably a software update away...
Truckee, CA - uses Gilbarco registers, probably also a software update away...
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 10:41 pm
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
I know of a few 76 stations that have EMV-ready pump hardware near me.

Reno, NV - Thomas Creek Road - uses Verifone registers, not sure they are certified yet
Incline Village, NV - brand new pumps, has NFC and uses Gilbarco registers, probably a software update away...
Truckee, CA - uses Gilbarco registers, probably also a software update away...
I'm not even sure what the timeframe would be. Gilbarco announced Mobil support months ago for instance yet the ones with their pumps around here seem to still be swipe-only outside.

BTW, speaking of EMV at the pump, I hear that it's working at Speedway and Racetrac. Someone might want to go confirm that though.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 2:39 pm
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I went back to Jersey Mike's for lunch today and inserted my Diners Club MC. No PIN or signature required--nor was there any EMV info on the receipt--but at least QC wasn't used (confirmed with cardpeek). I'd say that the chances of them supporting EMV contactless are higher now, especially with the upcoming Visa mandate.

Also, I inserted a Capital One 360 debit card at the newly opened Capital One Cafe here and it looked like they ran it using the global AID ("Debit Mastercard" showed up on the iPP350 running FreedomPay software instead of "Debit"). Also no PIN, signature or EMV info on the receipt. This one was kinda surprising since I expected them to support the common AID at the very least, but perhaps they didn't feel it was necessary.

Anyway, I wonder if my recent findings indicate that few (if any) of the remaining EMV holdouts are going to bother with any sort of PIN support. While most of those that I know of are restaurants (which wouldn't be a surprise considering their reluctance to do pay at the table), there are a few non-restaurant chains around here still without EMV. Examples include Sur La Table, Godiva and See's Candies. Even more interesting would be if some of the retailers with EMV and PIN support decide to get rid of the latter, either in the near future or on their next hardware upgrade cycle; I'm not sure how likely that'll be though.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 9:07 pm
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As mentioned in the other thread, I'm running an experiment to see a) how long it takes to get the PIN on the Arrival+ pushed to it and b) online PIN support at the major merchants with unattended terminals (IIRC Safeway fuel and USPS). My first transaction was at a Vons fuel pump and it looks like online PIN is actually supported. ^



Unfortunately contactless at Vons is still wonky; I got a "chip declined" error when I tapped it at the gas station's convenience store. Supposedly that'll be fixed in a few weeks though, and since Safeway does QC it's unlikely I messed up the experiment.

Next will be to see if it's supported at USPS' kiosks. Then I can just use the card normally until cardpeek shows a PIN count of higher than 0, however long that takes.

EDIT: just realized that using it at USPS will likely cause the PIN to be pushed. I'm thinking that I can just do a PIN change online instead and see if I can immediately use the new PIN.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 1:42 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Also, I inserted a Capital One 360 debit card at the newly opened Capital One Cafe here and it looked like they ran it using the global AID ("Debit Mastercard" showed up on the iPP350 running FreedomPay software instead of "Debit"). Also no PIN, signature or EMV info on the receipt. This one was kinda surprising since I expected them to support the common AID at the very least, but perhaps they didn't feel it was necessary.
Interesting. My local Capital One ATMs at the cafes give me the option to choose either "DEBIT" or "DEBIT MASTERCARD" and choosing either one doesn't seem to matter, as I have been able to run balances, make deposits, and withdrawals on both. Although it might be giving me the choice as to how to run it, it might just default to debit regardless of choice.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 9:38 am
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I went to a restaurant yesterday that I have been many times before. They have a new system where the waitress takes your order and inputs it into a handheld device, At the end of the meal the waitress adds up your bill and shows you your total. She then takes your card and either insert or swipe as what the card is. She hands you back your card. Now, this is where it gets crazy. She leaves and brings you back your receipt as it prints at the front so you can add a tip. I had to wait a good five minutes or so for her to come back to sign the slip. They should be able to print it at the table IMO.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 11:34 am
  #4947  
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Originally Posted by diburning
Interesting. My local Capital One ATMs at the cafes give me the option to choose either "DEBIT" or "DEBIT MASTERCARD" and choosing either one doesn't seem to matter, as I have been able to run balances, make deposits, and withdrawals on both. Although it might be giving me the choice as to how to run it, it might just default to debit regardless of choice.
I know that Chase ATMs auto-select the common AID if you insert one of their cards. I'm not sure why ATMs in general ask since there doesn't seem to be much of a difference from the customer end (at least for withdrawals).

Originally Posted by powerlifter
I went to a restaurant yesterday that I have been many times before. They have a new system where the waitress takes your order and inputs it into a handheld device, At the end of the meal the waitress adds up your bill and shows you your total. She then takes your card and either insert or swipe as what the card is. She hands you back your card. Now, this is where it gets crazy. She leaves and brings you back your receipt as it prints at the front so you can add a tip. I had to wait a good five minutes or so for her to come back to sign the slip. They should be able to print it at the table IMO.
BJ's supposedly does it this way but in practice, they just take my card away, run it on the tablet while standing by the receipt printers and then bring it (and the receipt) back. It's why I haven't been able to ask to try contactless yet, though I also don't go there much.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 2:27 pm
  #4948  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
BJ's supposedly does it this way but in practice, they just take my card away, run it on the tablet while standing by the receipt printers and then bring it (and the receipt) back. It's why I haven't been able to ask to try contactless yet, though I also don't go there much.
The only place at BJ's where you can use contactless is at the ToGo desk. However, I tried my Savor at that terminal (which showed the contactless symbol on the small pay pad - not the menu tablet), and it failed the two times I tried. I had to resort to chip insert.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 3:31 pm
  #4949  
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Originally Posted by rasheed
The only place at BJ's where you can use contactless is at the ToGo desk. However, I tried my Savor at that terminal (which showed the contactless symbol on the small pay pad - not the menu tablet), and it failed the two times I tried. I had to resort to chip insert.
I could have sworn that someone here was able to convince a server to let them tap on the tablet (and it actually worked). I could be thinking of another place, though.
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Old Mar 23, 2019, 3:33 pm
  #4950  
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Originally I wasn't going to use the Arrival+ at the USPS kiosk while the PIN wasn't pushed to it, but I decided that I wanted to see how strict Barclays were about needing to use the card at an attended terminal. Turns out that a) online PIN is supported by the USPS kiosks and b) that does get the PIN pushed to the card (PIN Try Counter is now 3).

So yeah, unless USPS implements Quick Chip, buy a stamp or two at the kiosks when you do a PIN change to guarantee that it's pushed.

BTW, it took about 3 days to get the PIN pushed. Yesterday was 100% contactless and the day before was only at Quick Chip merchants--if the card was inserted at all.
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