Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > Credit Card Programs
Reload this Page >

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: serpens


Older (archived) threads:
2012-2015 2016

What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
Print Wikipost

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 14, 2017, 7:32 am
  #3016  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by tmiw
It works internationally if the terminal supports online PIN. Very few debit cards issued in the US have offline PIN, as we've seen.
Thanks tmiw. Always appreciate your comments.

For my clarification, I thought we were talking about credit cards?

And I'm assuming that the few US credit cards that do have "offline" pin (First Tech, SDFCU), would work internationally as offline. Is that incorrect? (I haven't see any discussion contrary to this.)

Thanks.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 7:34 am
  #3017  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by tmiw
BTW, speaking of PIN, Panda Express does support offline PIN. The receipt doesn't have much EMV info on it, however, but weirdly still more than with contactless (which as mentioned before is EMV too).
What info on the receipt tells us that this was offline PIN?

Thank you.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 9:51 am
  #3018  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Originally Posted by kayanco
Thanks tmiw. Always appreciate your comments.

For my clarification, I thought we were talking about credit cards?

And I'm assuming that the few US credit cards that do have "offline" pin (First Tech, SDFCU), would work internationally as offline. Is that incorrect? (I haven't see any discussion contrary to this.)

Thanks.
I probably should have clarified. What the "PIN network" comment by Visa refers to is the non-Visa/MC networks that some stores can run debit cards over. Regardless of the network, though, nearly all debit cards issued in the US are set up to use online PIN and not offline PIN (though generally entering the PIN in the US will not run the transaction over Visa/MC).

Internationally, debit cards will use the Visa/MC "application" on the chip instead of the "debit" one, which is generally set up to be signature preferring (except at ATMs, of course). Since some countries don't support online PIN for purchases, the PIN on debit cards might very well never get asked for or used.

As for credit cards, those are more likely to have offline PIN support--if there's PIN support for purchases at all, which most cards other than Mastercards tend not to have. Fortunately, offline PIN support in other countries seems more common than online PIN, so PIN will be asked for if preferred/needed.

Originally Posted by kayanco
What info on the receipt tells us that this was offline PIN?
Nowhere, unfortunately, just what I observed while using that card. Other stores tend to have way more EMV-related info on their receipts compared to some.
kayanco likes this.
tmiw is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 10:54 am
  #3019  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by tmiw
I probably should have clarified. What the "PIN network" comment by Visa refers to is the non-Visa/MC networks that some stores can run debit cards over. Regardless of the network, though, nearly all debit cards issued in the US are set up to use online PIN and not offline PIN (though generally entering the PIN in the US will not run the transaction over Visa/MC).

Internationally, debit cards will use the Visa/MC "application" on the chip instead of the "debit" one, which is generally set up to be signature preferring (except at ATMs, of course). Since some countries don't support online PIN for purchases, the PIN on debit cards might very well never get asked for or used.

As for credit cards, those are more likely to have offline PIN support--if there's PIN support for purchases at all, which most cards other than Mastercards tend not to have. Fortunately, offline PIN support in other countries seems more common than online PIN, so PIN will be asked for if preferred/needed.
It's my understanding that in the US, when at POS you select "Debit" and enter PIN, the transaction doesn't go over the Visa/MC network but some other network. While if you select "Credit" (you are not asked for pin), then the transaction goes over the V/MC network.
- Is this correct?
- And is this what you were describing in your post?

- Are you saying that internationally, the debit card would always go over the V/MC network for both purchases and ATM?
- Internationally won't you get the same "Debit" or "Credit" option at POS?

- There are reports here of people using their debit card at unattended kiosks. Did that transaction work because it was doing online pin?

- If a terminal only supports offline pin, then is it true that the debit card won't work? While a CC like USAA or PenFed would work (because they have offline in CVM)?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by tmiw
Nowhere, unfortunately, just what I observed while using that card. Other stores tend to have way more EMV-related info on their receipts compared to some.
I didn't ask properly, my bad. I mean, how did you know that Panda Express supported offline pin as opposed to online pin? Or do we not know that?

I know Starbucks and Subway ask for pin, but I wonder how can we tell if it's online or offline?

Thanks.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 12:15 pm
  #3020  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Originally Posted by kayanco
It's my understanding that in the US, when at POS you select "Debit" and enter PIN, the transaction doesn't go over the Visa/MC network but some other network. While if you select "Credit" (you are not asked for pin), then the transaction goes over the V/MC network.
- Is this correct?
- And is this what you were describing in your post?
Yes and yes.

Originally Posted by kayanco
- Are you saying that internationally, the debit card would always go over the V/MC network for both purchases and ATM?
- Internationally won't you get the same "Debit" or "Credit" option at POS?
Correct. Terminals outside the US don't support the debit application that's programmed onto US debit cards, so they'll always use the Visa/MC one.

Originally Posted by kayanco
- There are reports here of people using their debit card at unattended kiosks. Did that transaction work because it was doing online pin?
Quite possibly. I don't know 100% for sure because I don't recall exactly what cards were used.

Originally Posted by kayanco
- If a terminal only supports offline pin, then is it true that the debit card won't work? While a CC like USAA or PenFed would work (because they have offline in CVM)?
Depends. Terminals are supposed to be able to support signature-only cards (which is what a card without offline PIN would work as if online PIN isn't supported in a particular country), but as noted in this thread and elsewhere on FT, that's not 100% reliable.

Originally Posted by kayanco
I didn't ask properly, my bad. I mean, how did you know that Panda Express supported offline pin as opposed to online pin? Or do we not know that?
I used the Diners Club MC for that transaction, which per this page has online PIN below signature. Since offline PIN is first on the list and the terminal asked for a PIN, we can deduce that offline PIN was used.

Originally Posted by kayanco
I know Starbucks and Subway ask for pin, but I wonder how can we tell if it's online or offline?
They definitely only support offline PIN. Online PIN-preferring cards have been used at both in the past and PIN was not asked for, while cards like the Diners Club MC always ask there.
kayanco likes this.
tmiw is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 1:47 pm
  #3021  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by tmiw
I used the Diners Club MC for that transaction, which per this page has online PIN below signature. Since offline PIN is first on the list and the terminal asked for a PIN, we can deduce that offline PIN was used.
I appreciate your detailed explanations.

And that's a good inference there with the Diners Club

So I take that with a card like First Tech which has both online and offline pin before the signature, there is no way to tell? i.e. the receipt won't show offline vs online?

Also this makes me ask, if both in the US and outside, offline pin is what's used, then why do the cards have online pin at all? Or have it #1 on CVM, like First Tech does.

Side-question on your Diners club:
From that link I see that it's annual fee is $300. Is there something about it that justifies this cost vs. a 2% cash back Visa/MC?

Thanks.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 2:07 pm
  #3022  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEL
Posts: 1,056
Originally Posted by tmiw
Correct. Terminals outside the US don't support the debit application that's programmed onto US debit cards, so they'll always use the Visa/MC one.


Quite possibly. I don't know 100% for sure because I don't recall exactly what cards were used [where US debit cards worked in unattended kiosks].
At least here in the Benelux, the debit and credit networks are completely separate--a card is either a credit card or a debit card, never both. Some European countries are getting debit cards that can be run on the credit network, but it's my understanding that they're only processed as credit when the debit network is unavailable (e.g. if used in the US)

As for the cards, we've had 100% success here in Belgium and in the Netherlands with American debit cards without offline PIN support in kiosks and cardlocks that won't take cards without PIN, so online PIN seems to have nearly universal support. Maestro (and AFAIK Bancontact) debit networks process transactions exclusively online, so a terminal that wasn't online would be useless since the overwhelming majority of transactions here are debit.

France is a different story--Carte Bleue (er, sorry, "CB") will run offline, so merchants have no reason to upgrade their equipment.

And just to add a useless but amusing data point, I have a fuel card from Total that's swipe-and-PIN. It's a proprietary network, though--it works nowhere else.

We may all buy fuel in litres and (almost) all pay for it in Euro, but the payment networks are still very much national.
kayanco likes this.

Last edited by der_saeufer; Nov 14, 2017 at 2:13 pm
der_saeufer is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 2:58 pm
  #3023  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by der_saeufer
As for the cards, we've had 100% success here in Belgium and in the Netherlands with American debit cards without offline PIN support in kiosks and cardlocks that won't take cards without PIN, so online PIN seems to have nearly universal support. Maestro (and AFAIK Bancontact) debit networks process transactions exclusively online, so a terminal that wasn't online would be useless since the overwhelming majority of transactions here are debit.
So that's a little odd and I don't get it, if the terminal does "online" pin for debit cards, then why can't it or why doesn't it do so for credit card? It's the same terminal.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 3:19 pm
  #3024  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Originally Posted by kayanco
I appreciate your detailed explanations.

And that's a good inference there with the Diners Club

So I take that with a card like First Tech which has both online and offline pin before the signature, there is no way to tell? i.e. the receipt won't show offline vs online?

Also this makes me ask, if both in the US and outside, offline pin is what's used, then why do the cards have online pin at all? Or have it #1 on CVM, like First Tech does.

Side-question on your Diners club:
From that link I see that it's annual fee is $300. Is there something about it that justifies this cost vs. a 2% cash back Visa/MC?

Thanks.
Some places print out enough information on the receipt to be able to figure that out. There are also some cards (not sure if First Tech's do) that have a log of the last few chip transactions, which could also provide enough information to determine online or offline PIN use.

Worst case, if a card allows PIN changes via IVR or online banking, that can be used to determine online or offline PIN support. If you change the PIN and the new PIN doesn't immediately work for the next POS transaction (that is, you still have to enter the old PIN), then the terminal is attempting to use the PIN stored on the card. Unfortunately this isn't possible with First Tech IIRC since PIN changes are only allowed at ATMs, but it can be used with cards like Barclay's for unattended terminals.

As for why cards tend to not prefer online PIN over offline PIN, it tends to be to help make transactions slightly faster. This might change, though, as those issuers that permit PIN changes without going to the ATM increasingly have a harder and harder time pushing new PINs to cards thanks to Quick Chip (which prevents the terminal from running scripts pushed by issuers that would change the PIN).

Anyway, I have the less expensive Diners Club card ($95/year IIRC). Only 1x for purchases but this is a backup card anyway. Unfortunately neither card is available to new cardholders and likely never will be. Before I got the CSR it was the least expensive card I had with lounge access, so I kinda justified it that way.

Originally Posted by kayanco
So that's a little odd and I don't get it, if the terminal does "online" pin for debit cards, then why can't it or why doesn't it do so for credit card? It's the same terminal.
I think his point is that the terminals there do support online PIN, since US debit cards will run over the credit networks (Visa/MC) there.
tmiw is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 3:53 pm
  #3025  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by kayanco
So that's a little odd and I don't get it, if the terminal does "online" pin for debit cards, then why can't it or why doesn't it do so for credit card? It's the same terminal.
Any modern terminal CAN, but it needs the correct encryption public keys loaded.
AllieKat is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 4:12 pm
  #3026  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by tmiw
Anyway, I have the less expensive Diners Club card ($95/year IIRC). Only 1x for purchases but this is a backup card anyway. Unfortunately neither card is available to new cardholders and likely never will be. Before I got the CSR it was the least expensive card I had with lounge access, so I kinda justified it that way.
I've never used an airport lounge, I find that in my connections, by the time I get some coffee, look around a bit, I can pass 3-4 hours.

How much of a difference do lounges make you think?
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 4:15 pm
  #3027  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by kayanco
I've never used an airport lounge, I find that in my connections, by the time I get some coffee, look around a bit, I can pass 3-4 hours.

How much of a difference do lounges make you think?
Large difference. Once you have used an airport lounge it’s hard to go back to any other way
RedLight2015 is online now  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 4:28 pm
  #3028  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Originally Posted by RedLight2015
Large difference. Once you have used an airport lounge it’s hard to go back to any other way
Eh, it depends on the airport. I'm fine not having lounge access at my home airport (SAN) for instance because of its recent renovations and the fact that I don't really need to get there all that early.
tmiw is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 4:58 pm
  #3029  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by RedLight2015
Large difference. Once you have used an airport lounge it’s hard to go back to any other way
What do you use it for primarily?
And how much does it cost you to use one?

Thanks.
kayanco is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 5:28 pm
  #3030  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,669
Originally Posted by kayanco
What do you use it for primarily?
And how much does it cost you to use one?

Thanks.
They are a lot quieter (in general) than the terminals, there are usually food and beverage offerings that are included in the membership or access fee, Internet access, some business functions like access to printers, and so on.

In my case, I have access to Skyclub and Premier Pass lounges included in the Amex Platinum annual fee.
fliesdelta is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.