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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Jan 16, 2017, 11:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old May 24, 2017, 2:36 pm
  #1651  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I forget if it's been mentioned before but do you have a source on it being "best practice"?
I know with the FI I work for here in Canada, that fallback adds a significant risk score to the transaction (It's out of 120, but most day to day transactions are in the low teens) but if the transaction is a low amount or somewhere the customer usually transacts then it'll usually be approved (We also track merchants where other customers have also had fallback transactions, as its more likely a terminal malfunction (Or the terminal processes it as fallback even though the terminal doesn't support the network AID), I'm not sure if thats something that all Fis do but my FI is better positioned to be able to do it). I don't know much more though, as fraud isn't my usual department, I work in lending and only really see the fraud score on transactions when reviewing accounts.
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Old May 25, 2017, 1:22 am
  #1652  
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Had lunch at a food court restaurant that had "ATM/Debit Accepted Here" signs. My BofA debit card (yes, I know, but wanted to test) ran using the global AID on their VX520. There's another enabled one next door that looked to be using an iCT terminal on their back counter, obviously inaccessible to customers; I kinda want to go back and try that one and see how my PIN preferring cards act, but at the same time I feel like most acquirers will disable PIN support for restaurants now.

I also went to the non-military base Dunkin' Donuts here and their MX915s are apparently still "undergoing maintenance"; the cashier swiped on the POS instead. I think this has been the case for at least a couple of months now, which is pretty ridiculous. The one other DD that's not on a military base does not use the "standard" POS/terminal setup, unfortunately, so I'll likely need to go farther to see if EMV actually got enabled.

Speaking of DD, the Baskin-Robbin's near my house has custom-made "insert chip card here" signs, so it may be safe to assume they're all enabled now.
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Old May 25, 2017, 6:36 am
  #1653  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Had lunch at a food court restaurant that had "ATM/Debit Accepted Here" signs. My BofA debit card (yes, I know, but wanted to test) ran using the global AID on their VX520. There's another enabled one next door that looked to be using an iCT terminal on their back counter, obviously inaccessible to customers; I kinda want to go back and try that one and see how my PIN preferring cards act, but at the same time I feel like most acquirers will disable PIN support for restaurants now.

I also went to the non-military base Dunkin' Donuts here and their MX915s are apparently still "undergoing maintenance"; the cashier swiped on the POS instead. I think this has been the case for at least a couple of months now, which is pretty ridiculous. The one other DD that's not on a military base does not use the "standard" POS/terminal setup, unfortunately, so I'll likely need to go farther to see if EMV actually got enabled.

Speaking of DD, the Baskin-Robbin's near my house has custom-made "insert chip card here" signs, so it may be safe to assume they're all enabled now.
Merchants like Dunkin don't really have an excuse anymore. How long does certifying such simple software take? Should've been done months or even over a year ago. I do give them props for having Apple Pay accessibility, though.

What I want to know is when merchants will begin making terminals accessible from the drive thru. Can't use Apple Pay or my contactless card from there.
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Old May 25, 2017, 8:12 am
  #1654  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Had lunch at a food court restaurant that had "ATM/Debit Accepted Here" signs. My BofA debit card (yes, I know, but wanted to test) ran using the global AID on their VX520. There's another enabled one next door that looked to be using an iCT terminal on their back counter, obviously inaccessible to customers; I kinda want to go back and try that one and see how my PIN preferring cards act, but at the same time I feel like most acquirers will disable PIN support for restaurants now.

I also went to the non-military base Dunkin' Donuts here and their MX915s are apparently still "undergoing maintenance"; the cashier swiped on the POS instead. I think this has been the case for at least a couple of months now, which is pretty ridiculous. The one other DD that's not on a military base does not use the "standard" POS/terminal setup, unfortunately, so I'll likely need to go farther to see if EMV actually got enabled.

Speaking of DD, the Baskin-Robbin's near my house has custom-made "insert chip card here" signs, so it may be safe to assume they're all enabled now.
Erin and I keep up with this thread a lot. We went to a Baskin Robins yesterday, and though it was using point, EMV wasn't enabled here yet. Cashier said it's coming soon.
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Old May 25, 2017, 10:10 am
  #1655  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
What I want to know is when merchants will begin making terminals accessible from the drive thru. Can't use Apple Pay or my contactless card from there.
In 2014. You never saw the McDonalds MX830 on a stick?

http://www.cio.com/article/2834502/c...aunch-day.html
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Old May 25, 2017, 10:38 am
  #1656  
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
In 2014. You never saw the McDonalds MX830 on a stick?

http://www.cio.com/article/2834502/c...aunch-day.html
I feel like that's incredibly inconvenient for all involved, though. It's why I don't use contactless the rare times I'm in a drive through.
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Old May 25, 2017, 11:02 am
  #1657  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I feel like that's incredibly inconvenient for all involved, though. It's why I don't use contactless the rare times I'm in a drive through.
Same here. Easier to just hand them a card, plus that way I can see if that location has EMV enabled yet. Have you ever tested your PIN-preferring card there? If they don't have PIN support disabled, they'd still have to stick the thing out the window for you to enter the PIN.
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Old May 25, 2017, 11:25 am
  #1658  
 
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
In 2014. You never saw the McDonalds MX830 on a stick?

http://www.cio.com/article/2834502/c...aunch-day.html
I prefer Starbuck's VX820 in a rubber case than an Mx830 on a stick.
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Old May 25, 2017, 11:26 am
  #1659  
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
Same here. Easier to just hand them a card, plus that way I can see if that location has EMV enabled yet. Have you ever tested your PIN-preferring card there? If they don't have PIN support disabled, they'd still have to stick the thing out the window for you to enter the PIN.
I have at a Carl's Jr. drive-through before and their terminal didn't ask for PIN (but I'm not sure if it was disabled altogether or just for small amounts). They don't use the supposed "official" terminal/POS setup around here, however, so YMMV.

In-N-Out and McDonald's also don't seem to ask for PIN but I've only tried inside. I don't think it'd be much different outside though.
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Old May 25, 2017, 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I forget if it's been mentioned before but do you have a source on it being "best practice"?



EMV's definitely enabled at H-E-B, but there's a chance I missed a few locations.

As for fallback, I know that Ingenico standalone terminals say "Swipe+Chip" or similar on the receipt when that happens. I was tracking sample receipts here for a bit but haven't been keeping it up to date lately.
HEB and Central Market (subsidiary) locations are definitely enabled now, they took forever but I think around the beginning of the year they went online?

I appreciate the frank discussion - I feel a bit more educated after reading this thread. It is frustrating that I allowed myself to be lulled into a false sense of security - stupid I know. The situation isn't a big deal besides the inconvenience of my husband being out of country without a card, also a mistake on our end.

I can't see them denying a "fallback" transaction in the US - Americans would swamp the already pathetic Customer service line with complaints and card cancellations if they were denied like that. Unless all the companies would agree at the same time to hold the line on it it would be each issuers in to poach each other's clients. It would have to be coordinated - and I wish they would. Anyhow, following this thread for more interesting information.

Oh, and have looked in to Android, Apple and Samsung Pay. Will research those and see if they are anymore secure.

Last edited by TAPAL10; May 25, 2017 at 11:31 am Reason: Added thoughts
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Old May 25, 2017, 7:40 pm
  #1661  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
Erin and I keep up with this thread a lot. We went to a Baskin Robins yesterday, and though it was using point, EMV wasn't enabled here yet. Cashier said it's coming soon.
As an update, contactless is indeed MSD only there (method says "TAPPED" and the payment receipt has no EMV info, plus Wallet not showing the amount). I really wonder if merchants are going to bother and whether there's any desire on Visa's part to enforce that rule.
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Old May 25, 2017, 10:15 pm
  #1662  
 
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
In 2014. You never saw the McDonalds MX830 on a stick?

http://www.cio.com/article/2834502/c...aunch-day.html
Perhaps I should have been more clear. I've seen them before, just wondering why they can't be used for Apple Pay/Android Pay/Samsung Pay, or physical contactless card transactions? It's hard enough to get Americans to learn about contactless, why would I want to hand them my phone or go through the additional step of explaining it to them when I can do it myself? Additionally all the store needs is for an employee to drop my phone on accident and shatter the screen, because that'll go over well. /s

I feel like drive thru employees would refuse to take my phone or refuse to use that little thing to stick the terminal out of the window.

Same here. Easier to just hand them a card, plus that way I can see if that location has EMV enabled yet. Have you ever tested your PIN-preferring card there? If they don't have PIN support disabled, they'd still have to stick the thing out the window for you to enter the PIN.
See above as to why I'd rather not hand them my card. Besides you never know what's behind the counter. "Oops I dropped your card," meanwhile they swipe it on a magnetic stripe data storing device and then proceed to use your card to pay for the meal. Yes I get the whole $0 liability stuff but would rather not have to call Citi and complain to their outsourced, lazy CSR's that never try to help you.
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Old May 25, 2017, 10:56 pm
  #1663  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Perhaps I should have been more clear. I've seen them before, just wondering why they can't be used for Apple Pay/Android Pay/Samsung Pay, or physical contactless card transactions? It's hard enough to get Americans to learn about contactless, why would I want to hand them my phone or go through the additional step of explaining it to them when I can do it myself? Additionally all the store needs is for an employee to drop my phone on accident and shatter the screen, because that'll go over well. /s

I feel like drive thru employees would refuse to take my phone or refuse to use that little thing to stick the terminal out of the window.



See above as to why I'd rather not hand them my card. Besides you never know what's behind the counter. "Oops I dropped your card," meanwhile they swipe it on a magnetic stripe data storing device and then proceed to use your card to pay for the meal. Yes I get the whole $0 liability stuff but would rather not have to call Citi and complain to their outsourced, lazy CSR's that never try to help you.
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I never had trouble with places that support it with sticking the thing out the window...NOW, when Apple Pay first came out, it was a different story.
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Old May 25, 2017, 11:12 pm
  #1664  
 
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
I never had trouble with places that support it with sticking the thing out the window...NOW, when Apple Pay first came out, it was a different story.
I wouldn't put it past a McDonald's employee to do so.
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Old May 26, 2017, 6:56 am
  #1665  
 
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I walk or use transit most of the time, so I'm almost never in a drive-thru. The last time I was in a Starbucks drive-thru was four years ago in Florida. With that being said, I can see how annoying it could be for employees to go from swipe-only to having to stick out a terminal. I mean, we're all human, and we're all resistant to change to some extent.

Even with Starbucks' new policy of not handling credit cards, even in the drive-thru, people still make a fuss about it on /r/starbucks and admit to just taking people's card and sticking the reader out "for PIN cards and those Apple Pay people". (Then again, that subreddit finds a way to complain about everything that isn't complaint-worthy.)
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