DCC: Dynamic Currency Conversion (2017-2025)
Aug 31, 2017 | 11:49 pm
#226
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 434
Jordan immigration
To enter Jordan you can buy a visa on arrival at the airport, but you must pay in Jordanian dinars. For years the simple scam was to have an ATM and an exchange counter in the immigration area, both of which offered lousy rates.
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
Seth
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
Seth
Sep 1, 2017 | 12:28 am
#227
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,102
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
That reminds me to check my USD and/or VND cash on hand next month before heading to HCMC next month - visa payments must be cash (I don't have a passport valid for e-visa)
Sep 1, 2017 | 1:23 am
#228
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 111
To enter Jordan you can buy a visa on arrival at the airport, but you must pay in Jordanian dinars. For years the simple scam was to have an ATM and an exchange counter in the immigration area, both of which offered lousy rates.
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
Seth
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
Seth
Sep 1, 2017 | 2:16 am
#229
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,957
Huh, I was there this May (crossing over from Eilat). They asked if I wanted the charge in dinars or dollars, I said dinars and got charged in dinars, nothing shady. Same thing in a couple of other places, a souvenir store and a restaurant. Used PIN-preferring cards throughout, but the terminals never displayed the amount.
I don't remember any ATM fees at the time, and my friend had 50 dinars prior to arrival, which was sufficient at the time for 2 tourist visas.
Sep 1, 2017 | 3:16 am
#230
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 434
Quite possible Chase will just issue the credit anyway without following through.
But yes, good to think of the consequences. Have a good trip to HCMC!
Seth
Sep 1, 2017 | 9:21 am
#231
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,957
The guy just had a stack of charge slips. I hardly think they're going to match up the receipt to the name on the passport, and then the passport itself. And by the time I visit Jordan again I will likely have a new passport anyway.
Quite possible Chase will just issue the credit anyway without following through.
But yes, good to think of the consequences. Have a good trip to HCMC!
Seth
Quite possible Chase will just issue the credit anyway without following through.
But yes, good to think of the consequences. Have a good trip to HCMC!
Seth
Likely Chase would not bother with a Reason Code 76 chargeback and issue a courtesy credit. 6% is a high premium for a credit card payment, especially for a currency that's fixed to the USD.
Sep 1, 2017 | 2:00 pm
#232
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 434
It seems like one way to avoid this is by purchasing the Jordan Pass in advance, which includes the visa fee.
Likely Chase would not bother with a Reason Code 76 chargeback and issue a courtesy credit. 6% is a high premium for a credit card payment, especially for a currency that's fixed to the USD.
Likely Chase would not bother with a Reason Code 76 chargeback and issue a courtesy credit. 6% is a high premium for a credit card payment, especially for a currency that's fixed to the USD.
Didn't even realize USD and JOD were linked -- thanks.
Seth
Sep 4, 2017 | 3:11 pm
#233
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 111
A very pleasant DCC experience at the Zleep Airport Hotel in Copenhagen. The clerk at the reception has clearly mentioned it from the start, the choice was always mine and he suggested that in most cases it is better to be charged in local currency. Also, it is impossible to proceed with the payment without making a choice first and the choice is very clear (press 1 to be charged $36, press 2 to be charged DKK 198, there's no default). As you can see, the penalty for using DCC is quite steep, so the guy was spot on.
Sep 10, 2017 | 5:18 pm
#234
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,742
I could have sworn I told PayPal to not DCC me a long time ago but apparently it forgot all of those settings (and I had to Google to find the non-obvious place in the settings to disable it, too). 
If I had not looked at the eBay checkout page closely enough it would have been a 4% markup on top of xe.com's GBP-USD rates.
On the US site, it's still available if you go to Profile > Payments > My Preapproved Payments > Set Available Funding Sources > Conversion Options. eBay seems to pick this up too as there's no specific setting there that I was able to find.
If I had not looked at the eBay checkout page closely enough it would have been a 4% markup on top of xe.com's GBP-USD rates.PayPal and Ebay have now stopped to worry about DCC (see https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/.../920926/page/8 ) . They are now charging people in their home currency without asking. 
Sep 11, 2017 | 9:02 am
#235
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 111
On the US site, it's still available if you go to Profile > Payments > My Preapproved Payments > Set Available Funding Sources > Conversion Options. eBay seems to pick this up too as there's no specific setting there that I was able to find.
Sep 11, 2017 | 9:23 am
#236
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,742
Thanks for the tip! So on that page the only thing I have checked is a credit card, yet every time I use Paypal to pay for an eBay item it defaults to the bank account. This page also suggests that these settings apply to "authorized/recurring payments to merchants". Basically I'm wondering if I should be on the lookout for a yet another knob to twist when I'm making one-off payments, any idea?
Sep 25, 2017 | 10:11 pm
#237
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shinjuku, Tokyo
Programs: ccor Plus Plat, Marriot Plat, AF Silver, KF Silver
Posts: 319
At least I found the policy online: https://www.hsbc.com.sg/1/PA_ES_Cont...chargestnc.pdf
They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.
Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.
I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.
Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.
Julien
Dynamic Currency Conversion
Dynamic currency conversion (DCC) is a service offered at selected ATMs located overseas and used by selected merchants and service providers (whether located overseas or online). DCC converts a foreign currency transaction into the currency of a card account at the point of sale.
Foreign currency transactions - If your foreign currency card transaction is converted to the currency of the card account via DCC, you acknowledge and agree that the process of conversion and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the relevant ATM operator, merchant or dynamic currency conversion service provider, as the case may be.
Transactions in the currency of your card account - If you enter into a transaction in the currency of your card account with a merchant (including online merchants) that routes its payment processing outside Singapore (and in the case of US dollar cards, outside the United States and Singapore), you acknowledge and agree that:
(i) this will be treated as a foreign currency transaction by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card scheme association (as the case may be); and
(ii) that the process of converting the foreign currency transaction to the currency of your card account and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the merchant.
In addition, with effect from 22 May 2017, all Dynamic Card Currency transactions described in above will be subject to an additional charge of 1% of the transaction amount, which is imposed by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card association (as the case may be).
Dynamic currency conversion (DCC) is a service offered at selected ATMs located overseas and used by selected merchants and service providers (whether located overseas or online). DCC converts a foreign currency transaction into the currency of a card account at the point of sale.
Foreign currency transactions - If your foreign currency card transaction is converted to the currency of the card account via DCC, you acknowledge and agree that the process of conversion and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the relevant ATM operator, merchant or dynamic currency conversion service provider, as the case may be.
Transactions in the currency of your card account - If you enter into a transaction in the currency of your card account with a merchant (including online merchants) that routes its payment processing outside Singapore (and in the case of US dollar cards, outside the United States and Singapore), you acknowledge and agree that:
(i) this will be treated as a foreign currency transaction by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card scheme association (as the case may be); and
(ii) that the process of converting the foreign currency transaction to the currency of your card account and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the merchant.
In addition, with effect from 22 May 2017, all Dynamic Card Currency transactions described in above will be subject to an additional charge of 1% of the transaction amount, which is imposed by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card association (as the case may be).
Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.
I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.
Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.
Julien
Sep 25, 2017 | 11:23 pm
#238
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
At least I found the policy online: https://www.hsbc.com.sg/1/PA_ES_Cont...chargestnc.pdf
They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.
Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.
I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.
Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.
Julien
They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.
Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.
I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.
Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.
Julien
I consider it very unfair as unlike a foreign exchange fee, a reasonable person can't be expected to know the country the merchant will process their transaction in.
Sep 25, 2017 | 11:26 pm
#239
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,102
I have HSBC HK's HKD and USD cards too
We don't have FTF/cross-border/so-called "DCC" fees for now, only foreign currency conversion fees (which the USD cards neatly sidestep)
But what happens in SG may find its way to that bank' HK operations:
We built a list of where transactions will be processed https://www.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/11968
But that's HK oriented. Not good for USD charging
Then you're going to get hit with HSBC SG's foreign currency conversion charge every time, unless you use a non-HSBC card for PayPal
I'd pick my fights. Besides, unless it'll cost me real money, I'd keep the card just to annoy them.
Doubt it'll work. In the case of HK issuer banks tacking on cross-border fees for real DCC, all HKMA did was to warn people it may happen.
We don't have FTF/cross-border/so-called "DCC" fees for now, only foreign currency conversion fees (which the USD cards neatly sidestep)
But what happens in SG may find its way to that bank' HK operations:
But that's HK oriented. Not good for USD charging
I'd pick my fights. Besides, unless it'll cost me real money, I'd keep the card just to annoy them.
Doubt it'll work. In the case of HK issuer banks tacking on cross-border fees for real DCC, all HKMA did was to warn people it may happen.
Sep 26, 2017 | 2:10 am
#240
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,957
Qantas did this too, and the transaction shows up as originating in Mascot. Qantas also offered DCC, which I posted about the other month on this thread.
A foreign exchange fee is understandable, but part of me thinks issuers moved to foreign transaction fees because 1) they were losing out to DCC and 2) airline websites (and others) were processing dollar denominated transactions internationally.