Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
- - - - - -
- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Sep 10, 2018, 3:24 pm
#4651
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
That said, NFC acceptance in the US is still not 100% so you may still need an AU card depending on your spending.
Sep 10, 2018, 5:20 pm
#4652
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Western US
Programs: Costco Executive Member, Amazon Optimus Prime
Posts: 1,251
Thanks for that. We've got enough cards that I'm not worried about not having something to pay with.
I'm hoping yugi chimes in here - they seem to be an expert on mobile/USB AR
I'm hoping yugi chimes in here - they seem to be an expert on mobile/USB AR
Sep 10, 2018, 5:54 pm
#4653
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Oh yeah, while I was leaving where I ate lunch today I heard a customer at the counter go into some sort of rant about Apple Pay and its support. I didn't catch anywhere near all of it but it sounded like he wanted to use it everywhere. (Maybe he was surprised that the restaurant had Clover Minis?)
Progress, at least.
BTW physical AmEx contactless ran extremely quickly there, possibly faster than I remember it running.
Progress, at least.
BTW physical AmEx contactless ran extremely quickly there, possibly faster than I remember it running.
Sep 13, 2018, 12:25 pm
#4654
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
Stopped by my local HMart today. It looks like they've changed their POS software. They're using the Toshiba SurePOS Ace system. It looks like the one that Supervalu used circa 2007.
They still have the same MX925s, but the screens are different. Every screen now shows "Powered by Index" in the middle of the screen.
Contactless Amex appears to be MSD.
They still have the same MX925s, but the screens are different. Every screen now shows "Powered by Index" in the middle of the screen.
Contactless Amex appears to be MSD.
Sep 13, 2018, 7:05 pm
#4655
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Stopped by my local HMart today. It looks like they've changed their POS software. They're using the Toshiba SurePOS Ace system. It looks like the one that Supervalu used circa 2007.
They still have the same MX925s, but the screens are different. Every screen now shows "Powered by Index" in the middle of the screen.
Contactless Amex appears to be MSD.
They still have the same MX925s, but the screens are different. Every screen now shows "Powered by Index" in the middle of the screen.
Contactless Amex appears to be MSD.
Sep 13, 2018, 8:37 pm
#4656
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
Prior to the change, my local HMart used some older version of the Toshiba SurePOS (4690) with a gray color scheme (the current version they are using is blue), and the MX925s had generic gray screens instead of the current blue ones indicating Index as the provider.
Sep 13, 2018, 10:03 pm
#4657
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
The Alon 7-Elevens apparently use a similar UI on their MX915s as the Mobil/Circle K gas stations in San Diego. The main difference is that the four lights appear immediately; cashier input isn't required for contactless. MSD-only, however.
Sep 14, 2018, 8:29 am
#4658
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I went to Village Inn today and they have Verifone VX820 with everything enabled but I forgot my phone so I used my physical Amex ctls card and it worked great. Had the dots actually green squares and the contactless logo too. Here is the kicker though the card info on the receipt looks like Trader Joe's or Whole Foods showing RXXXX EPS Sequence etc so I believe it to be MSD contactless only.
Sep 14, 2018, 10:49 am
#4660
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Sep 14, 2018, 11:04 am
#4661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Discover released this year's debit report. The good news:
The bad news:
The most concerning is this quote from the above link:
However, since the above data is from before CVS, 7-Eleven and Costco enabled contactless, maybe next year's will be significantly better.
The bad news:
The most concerning is this quote from the above link:
“We are just offering mobile wallets for convenience and to keep up with our peers, but we are not necessarily encouraging consumers to use these wallets.”
Sep 15, 2018, 1:10 am
#4662
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Discover released this year's debit report. The good news:
The bad news:
The most concerning is this quote from the above link:
However, since the above data is from before CVS, 7-Eleven and Costco enabled contactless, maybe next year's will be significantly better.
The bad news:
The most concerning is this quote from the above link:
However, since the above data is from before CVS, 7-Eleven and Costco enabled contactless, maybe next year's will be significantly better.
I am also very encouraged by the increased number of EMV contactless happening in the US. That mitigates all security concerns.
Sep 15, 2018, 8:36 am
#4663
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Of course they aren't going to encourage customers to use the mobile wallets. A cut of processing fees goes to Apple in that case... and that is exactly why they will need to give consumers contactless cards. Because it functions quickly and easily like the mobile wallets do. Everywhere I shop on a regular basis offers NFC except Kroger. There is that twice a month or so visit to Wal Mart where there is also no NFC but the everyday stuff is all NFC these days.
I am also very encouraged by the increased number of EMV contactless happening in the US. That mitigates all security concerns.
I am also very encouraged by the increased number of EMV contactless happening in the US. That mitigates all security concerns.
Anyway, the real sign something's wrong will probably be if/when an issuer kills AP support. Most likely a small bank or credit union, since I'm not sure one of the top 10 is going to want to risk the bad PR.
Sep 15, 2018, 11:13 pm
#4664
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I didn't realize the percentage for Samsung and Google was so damn low.
Then again, neither is really pushed by their owners compared to Apple.
Then again, neither is really pushed by their owners compared to Apple.
Sep 16, 2018, 6:54 am
#4665
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
However, I occasionally hear of Google Play offers for using Google Pay at stores X number of times. Capital One also recently had a statement credit offer to convince people to add their cards to Google Pay.