Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 30, 2017, 7:26 am
#2476
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Oct 30, 2017, 9:38 am
#2478
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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As I suspected, neither Marriott hotel on this trip supports contactless at the front desk. Chip and signature wasn't a problem, though--probably also unsurprisingly.
Also, my Diners Club MC does indeed work for travel on the Underground. ^
Also, my Diners Club MC does indeed work for travel on the Underground. ^
Oct 30, 2017, 11:20 am
#2479
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Correct. It will also apply to standalone terminals that allow you to swipe/insert then enter the amount, or press sale, enter the amount, then swipe/insert/tap. The former would no longer be permitted.
Oct 30, 2017, 11:22 am
#2480
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Let’s see how many merchants I still have to yell at after this.
Oct 30, 2017, 11:25 am
#2481
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
That's not what that rule is referring to. What you quoted refers to a new requirement that merchant terminals must not require additional actions on the part of a cardholder or merchant to activate a particular interface that the merchant supports. Or in other words, when the merchant activates the terminal for a transaction, all interfaces that are supported (chip, tap, and/or swipe) must be available. It also doesn't apply when the merchant completes the transaction for the cardholder, but would apply to any device that the cardholder is expected to interact with.
More info here:
http://broadcast01p.visabroadcasts.c...d1eba04b/lonew
Also, in the context of contactless, the interface itself is 'contactless', and qVSDC and MSD are simply processing paths for the Visa kernel. The rules to support qVSDC are not overruled by or related in anyway to that requirement.
More info here:
http://broadcast01p.visabroadcasts.c...d1eba04b/lonew
Also, in the context of contactless, the interface itself is 'contactless', and qVSDC and MSD are simply processing paths for the Visa kernel. The rules to support qVSDC are not overruled by or related in anyway to that requirement.
Oct 30, 2017, 11:34 am
#2482
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
It's only on a go-forward basis. Terminal/software configs that are already deployed and tested may continue in the current configuration. New hardware/software revisions that require testing will need to conform to this requirement.
Oct 30, 2017, 12:15 pm
#2483
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Yes but FD terminals usually get updated En Masse. Regardless if already deployed or not.
Oct 30, 2017, 12:54 pm
#2484
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Does that show your travel history on the tfl site? Ever get your travel on your CSR to show?
Oct 30, 2017, 1:17 pm
#2485
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: RSW
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No CVM at Nordstrom (contact EMV)
Probably fell under a $25 ceiling, but was surprised that my $3.50 shoeshine (with tip!) resulted in the fellow handing me a receipt (Chip Read, 31010, Visa Credit), wishing me a nice day, and no signature request from either him or the POS.
Later. Powells Books clerk announced they have a $25 waiver as well. Not just supermarkets and drugstores which is good to see.
Later. Powells Books clerk announced they have a $25 waiver as well. Not just supermarkets and drugstores which is good to see.
Last edited by Points Scrounger; Oct 30, 2017 at 4:15 pm
Oct 30, 2017, 3:17 pm
#2486
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Yeah, the Diners Club MC definitely has travel history on TfL's website. Still nothing for CSR, unfortunately. I don't know if using the Apple Pay version of the former will work, but maybe it's worth a shot?
Oct 31, 2017, 10:35 am
#2488
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And it did. Weirdly, the charge for the trips yesterday with the physical card hasn't shown up as pending yet. Not sure what to make of that.
BTW I found at least one more place without contactless today (although I spent >£30, so it might just not support CDCVM). I also didn't use contactless at Harrod's, so I'm not sure it's enabled there either--but they also attempt DCC so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
BTW I found at least one more place without contactless today (although I spent >£30, so it might just not support CDCVM). I also didn't use contactless at Harrod's, so I'm not sure it's enabled there either--but they also attempt DCC so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Oct 31, 2017, 10:39 am
#2489
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
And it did. Weirdly, the charge for the trips yesterday with the physical card hasn't shown up as pending yet. Not sure what to make of that.
BTW I found at least one more place without contactless today (although I spent >£30, so it might just not support CDCVM). I also didn't use contactless at Harrod's, so I'm not sure it's enabled there either--but they also attempt DCC so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
BTW I found at least one more place without contactless today (although I spent >£30, so it might just not support CDCVM). I also didn't use contactless at Harrod's, so I'm not sure it's enabled there either--but they also attempt DCC so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
What's the other? It could well simply be no CDCVM
Oct 31, 2017, 10:52 am
#2490
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Also of note is that the £0.01 amount that showed up on my iPhone when using my CSR on the Underground did not show up when I tried using my Diners Club MC. I'm not sure if an amount shows up at other stores but this might mean that this method of determining EMV/MSD contactless may not be reliable unless one uses a Visa.