Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Nov 6, 2017, 9:27 pm
#2566
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,668
The problem with using the Chipotle app is that you're eating at Chipotle.
(waits for clapping to subside)
Is this to pay within the app when ordering ahead? Or some blurb about the registers taking Apple Pay?
(waits for clapping to subside)
Is this to pay within the app when ordering ahead? Or some blurb about the registers taking Apple Pay?
Nov 6, 2017, 9:48 pm
#2567
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Pay within the app.
They get packed around here.
You're not going to see contactless at some foodie or high-end restaurants.
They get packed around here.
You're not going to see contactless at some foodie or high-end restaurants.
Nov 6, 2017, 11:06 pm
#2568
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Honestly, I just want Clover to reenable CDCVM. That seems like a reasonable short-term goal, especially since they've had it working before.
Nov 6, 2017, 11:17 pm
#2570
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Nov 6, 2017, 11:31 pm
#2571
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
If they are planning on adopting EMV, making people pay in the app would move people through more quickly. (Then again, they're probably doing that to cut down on losses from people not picking up their orders or something.)
Nov 7, 2017, 12:04 pm
#2572
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Apple Pay Cash is now live for iOS 11.2 beta users. The downside is that it's apparently a Discover debit card, which is going to have some merchant compatibility issues 
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:05 pm
#2573
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,668
Apple Pay Cash is now live for iOS 11.2 beta users. The downside is that it's apparently a Discover debit card, which is going to have some merchant compatibility issues
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
Setting it up was a breeze. It's not entirely clear what the funds source is, though?
Nov 7, 2017, 1:36 pm
#2574
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
If you pull up the properties for the card in Wallet, there's an "Add Money" option. Only works with debit cards already in Apple Pay though.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:44 pm
#2575
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
"Apple Pay Cash is a service provided by Green Dot Bank, member FDIC."
With merchants' Discover contactless acceptance.. I don't think Apple made a good choice in their apple pay cash card brand.
With merchants' Discover contactless acceptance.. I don't think Apple made a good choice in their apple pay cash card brand.
Last edited by PhX1Guy; Nov 7, 2017 at 1:54 pm
Nov 7, 2017, 2:20 pm
#2576
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Possibly Discover made a good deal in hopes it would push contactless D-PAS acceptance...
Nov 7, 2017, 3:15 pm
#2577
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Nov 7, 2017, 3:25 pm
#2578
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Contactless D-PAS acceptance has major issues even in the US. Also, Discover is one of many cards people tend to carry. But APPLE CASH? That'll get the Apple loyalists demanding acceptance.
Nov 7, 2017, 4:00 pm
#2579
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Apple Pay Cash is now live for iOS 11.2 beta users. The downside is that it's apparently a Discover debit card, which is going to have some merchant compatibility issues
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
Also, I don't seem to know anyone in my phone's contacts running the beta so it's not all that useful to me yet.
I'm updating to 11.2b2 right now, so I'll get to play with it soon.