Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 25, 2018, 8:25 pm
#4921
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
Checked out Sheetz for you twim - as soon as I put in the card, it said "remove card", so given that and no AID on receipt, I assume contactless is also MSD, not EMV, right?
Interestingly, Sheetz is the only one I've encountered so far that does not require authorization by zip or pin if we do contactless - other ones I went to were Royal Farms and Sunoco and they both did.
Interestingly, Sheetz is the only one I've encountered so far that does not require authorization by zip or pin if we do contactless - other ones I went to were Royal Farms and Sunoco and they both did.
Oct 26, 2018, 3:07 am
#4922
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Oct 26, 2018, 9:48 am
#4923
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 14
Right. My point on the MX915s was I don't know why a store would have Clovers as mentioned in the Tweet I linked to.
Oct 26, 2018, 11:26 am
#4924
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From here:
WF, Chase and BofA seem to be the biggest contenders to me since they all predominantly issue Visa cards. Thoughts?
How many of those are the result of the cashier tapping for the customer vs. people willingly doing so themselves? The people I've seen paying with the Costco card outside of Costco insert, but that may be because they've rightly concluded that tapping it currently only works reliably at Costco.
“On the issuing side, several of our largest clients will begin issuing contactless cards over the next few quarters. We expect that there will be over 100 million Visa contactless cards issued in the United States by the end of 2019.”
If so, contactless cards would represent nearly 12% of Visa’s U.S. card base of 856 million as of June 30, the latest figures available. That figure includes 521 million debit cards and 335 million credit cards.
If so, contactless cards would represent nearly 12% of Visa’s U.S. card base of 856 million as of June 30, the latest figures available. That figure includes 521 million debit cards and 335 million credit cards.
Kelly said contactless payments are booming at Costco Wholesale Corp., the big retailer that offers customers a dual-interface cobranded Visa credit card issued by Citigroup Inc. that doubles as a membership card. Costco recently turned on contactless acceptance at its 519 U.S. stores.
“Over half of in-store payments at Costco on their cobrand card are now paid with a tap after Costco enabled contactless payments just in mid-August of this year,” he said.
“Over half of in-store payments at Costco on their cobrand card are now paid with a tap after Costco enabled contactless payments just in mid-August of this year,” he said.
Oct 26, 2018, 4:28 pm
#4925
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I know that this has been reported recently. But my local Chick fil A does accept emv+emv contactless now and it works and reads just as well as it did before. I'd imagine its nationwide now since it works here as well. Oh and Big Lots still works just fine as msd.
Last edited by scibot; Oct 26, 2018 at 4:39 pm
Oct 26, 2018, 5:29 pm
#4926
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Wells Fargo doesn't seem to have fully stopped. When I signed up for Cash Wise it came without contactless, but several months later when my Home Rebate card (which is has no distinguishing markings to differentiate it from the standard Platinum or Signature Wells Fargo Visa cards) expired and I got a new one in the mail, it still had contactless.
Oct 26, 2018, 5:45 pm
#4927
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Speaking of Chick-fil-A, I seem to remember seeing payment being accepted by employees standing outside in the drive-through and taking people's orders. I could be wrong on that, but if not, it'd be interesting to see what they're actually using.
Wells Fargo doesn't seem to have fully stopped. When I signed up for Cash Wise it came without contactless, but several months later when my Home Rebate card (which is has no distinguishing markings to differentiate it from the standard Platinum or Signature Wells Fargo Visa cards) expired and I got a new one in the mail, it still had contactless.
Oct 27, 2018, 3:14 pm
#4928
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,068
Portland was mentioned as one of the open loop payment systems on this thread awhile back. I was able to use Google Pay at a Hop terminal in Portland today to pay my fare for the light rail. I noticed on the municipal buses that they all have the Pay logos for ways to pay as well. I believe it was also mentioned here, but tapping a second time buys a day pass, so there's no overspending possible when using the Pays to pay. ^
Oct 27, 2018, 4:13 pm
#4929
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Below are two photos that I took last week at one of the MAX stations. It's great that they're promoting contactless open loop payments. Even if a number of transit agencies in the US support contactless payments, you have to know what to look for in order to use them. For instance, I hadn't ridden the 'L' in Chicago for a number of years until this past summer, but it wasn't immediately clear that I could tap and go at the fare gate. (I only remember reading about it here.) With Portland's system, it's clearly posted that mobile and contactless payments are accepted at the light rail stations and on buses.
Oct 27, 2018, 4:30 pm
#4930
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
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I wouldn't go so far as to say they're discouraging use of contactless payments, but they don't make any effort to promote their acceptance. If I'm in doubt, I won't try to use a contactless payment, especially in a situation where I'm boarding a bus or train as to avoid being the person holding up the line.
Oct 27, 2018, 6:32 pm
#4931
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I wouldn't go so far as to say they're discouraging use of contactless payments, but they don't make any effort to promote their acceptance. If I'm in doubt, I won't try to use a contactless payment, especially in a situation where I'm boarding a bus or train as to avoid being the person holding up the line.
However, it's possible that this will change over time now that the networks are sanctioning offline transit transactions in the US. We'll have to see.
Oct 27, 2018, 8:00 pm
#4933
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Oct 27, 2018, 11:32 pm
#4934
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
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And even then, I think the cost of accepting Amex is still less than the cost of cash handling.
Oct 28, 2018, 8:02 pm
#4935
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I guess the parking meters in San Diego accept NFC now. https://imgur.com/a/mb3Gt19
Couldn't test since it's Sunday today. Maybe next time I'm downtown.
Couldn't test since it's Sunday today. Maybe next time I'm downtown.