It's sub-optimal, but at this point I'd take the credit. While they have no say in how the merchants charge, they are supposed to help you file chargebacks. If I'm ever in the situation where Chase won't play ball, I will file a complaint with Visa.

I have to wonder if you just keep getting bad reps when you call... I haven't dealt with CSP's customer service line, but the Marriott card has good staff.

That's right. If your card charges a currency exchange fee, that would not be charged in the case of DCC. If it has a FTF, the FTF is charged regardless of the currency denomination of the transaction.

So this must be the dialogue in mind?

Sir which currency you want? (USD it only can be :p)
You choose to opt out DCC? (We will DCC you anyway :p)
We will give you a courtesy slip. (You are so DCCed no matter what :p)

On the flip side if my home currency fell 5% I'll want to rape the merchant even more.

I would really suggest adopt See and Avoid VFR under most circumstances. In my 2011 Taiwan trip I voided every single slip with a box.

If you're really keen on charging an overseas spending to a certain card (as I was with Citi in Maldives) then see if a courtesy slip can be provided.

Several decades ago, it was the suggestion of what was supposedly a reliable travel editor that merchants might hold back depositing charge slips if a particular currency was hving a tough time i.e. say a British merchants took an American credit card at a time the USD relative to the GBP was in a state of decline. This "genius" claimed the merchant would find it advantageous to hold on to the charge for a bit of time waiting for the USD to decline further. Of course people here with a degree of inteligence realize how absurd this was even then as the merchant gets his or hers in their own currency and it makes no difference to them whether GBP 10 becomes USD 1.60 or USD 1.63 or USD 1.70....but that was the advice. Ugh.

Today, 99% of charges are done electronically, are in the merchant's bank account the next day and in the network at the same time so perhaps a day later the charge is posted.

As far as ftf's are concerned, it is not the currency it is where the merchant's bank processor is located. That is why many people who buy airline tickets, even from a US agency which is acting for the foreign airline, get nailed for a ftf on airline tickets on a purchase that they feel never leaves the USA but in reality is processed by the airline's acquirer in the country the airline is located.

So this FTF is equivalent to a wire transfer service fee?

No. Like so many bank fees it is there to rip more money from their customers. Many fees have no basis in reality other than as a way to pad the banks' profits. The ftf is one of them as the banks have nothing to do with currency fluctuations or risks inherent in them (which was the original reason given for foreign currency fees). The banks do nothing in a credit card transaction in a foreign currency. The conversion is done by mc and visa who assume all the risks of currency fluctuations and to a degree might justify the 1% fee mc and visa place on foreign currency conversions.

Extending that fee to all foreign transactions, even thouse involved with dcc or those processed outside the USA in the case of USA banks was a direct response to dcc in a way. It is one of the biggest rip off fees banks pull and quite frankly if I were a congressman, I woujld be pushing legislation to prohibit this fee (as well as make fees for overdrawn accounts, exceding credit limits on credit cards much more reasonable).

That's right. Somewhere along the way issuers in the US switched from currency exchange fees on cards to foreign transaction fees. So even if the customer accepts DCC or the case of an online merchant whose acquirer is overseas, you still get whacked with any FTF that your card imposes.

The bottom line is that Visa/MC impose a 1% currency exchange fee and pass this on to the issuer when a currency exchange happens. The issuer then typically adds a 2% markup. I tend to think customers just bend over and take it when it comes to overseas transactions, assuming that's just the price one pays for traveling abroad.

I personally find the 1% fee that Visa/MC impose to be acceptable due to the costs of handling different currencies. I can even somewhat justify AmEx's rate of 2.7% for personal cards with a FTF since their operations are smaller worldwide. However, I would still contend AmEx's true cost of conversion is much lower. I understand that there are risks converting currencies, and there are some currencies that fluctuate relative to one another than others such that the 1% fee is reasonable. It would be far too complicated to have a list of different exchange rates for different countries, so they set the bar at 1%. I'm fine if banks pass along this 1% fee to me as the customer but only if the conversion actually takes place. In the case of DCC or a foreign acquirer pricing in USD, the issuer that charges 3% is pocketing the entire amount.

On the other hand, I've described DCC exchange rates as usurious, which they are. I've seen anywhere between 3.95-4.99% as the offer, but the high exchange rates are necessary in order to pull off DCC successfully. I would have little problem with DCC or not cringe as much if the markup were 1-2%, but the acquirer in those cases wouldn't be able to offer DCC profitably. The acquirer certainly wouldn't be able to do some profit sharing agreement with the merchant. The result of this profit sharing arrangement and the higher currency exchange risk that a single acquirer assumes results in a rip-off exchange rate.

Wow. I received a call from Chase dispute department just 5 minutes ago. Long story short:

The customer rep who just called me was the original person who had received my dispute document via fax. She entered the information into the dispute system and called me, but missed her call. Her colleague followed up with what transpired last night.

The original rep made a reminder for herself to try me again and saw the notes on my account as what had happened. She called me just now and said, are you satisfied with the resolution of your dispute?

I said, well no. And she said, Yes I agree. She understands what DCC is and the impact, and said the paperwork I have provided is black and white. She initiated the charge back and put a temp credit of $83.76 USD on my account and asked me to wait 45 days for the merchant to respond. If not, it becomes permanent.

I told her she had restored my faith in people knowing to do the right thing. She replied, that its not ethical what the merchant did, and thanked me for being so patient.

^

This is fantastic news. Did you tell her that the second person you talked to didn't seem to care about Reason Code 76 or DCC even after you tried to explain nicely? Did they provide any recourse if this happens again? Perhaps there is a direct number or contact we could have on the inside for dealing with DCC disputes in the future.

In the end, it didn't take that long to go through the process, and this too restores my faith in Chase for doing the right thing. I was worried initially when they were telling you to pound sand and then reluctantly issued the courtesy credit.

It'll be interesting to see how Global Payments and Greyhound Cafe respond to the chargeback. Perhaps percysmith can shed some light on this, but does Global Payments simply toss the hot potato to Greyhound Cafe when they received the chargeback? If Greyhound's Global Payments terminals can't disable DCC how do they process the chargeback?

You told me at the restaurant that it really wouldn't matter to Greyhound Cafe since, at the end of the day, they should still get the HKD 623.00 out of this transaction assuming they can send it back over in HKD. If they don't, cxua got a free meal?

I never ate at A Lorcha http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...on-44.html#660 again - I've found way better restaurants in Macau to go to. I never bothered to contact them after the meal either - I don't know if they have an email address and I'm not paying for IDD if I can avoid it.

I imagine one of two things happened:

1. My issuer took the HK$562.73 back. Banco National Ultramarino deducted MOP564.30 from A Lorcha. A Lorcha asked BNU to charge me again in MOP this time based on their merchant copy and the slip was re-presented.

2. My issuer took the HK$562.73 back. As BNU already had the copy of the slip it recharged my issuer MOP564.30 without reference to A Lorcha.

Unless a Citi Prestige-like offer comes along it'd be more worthwhile for me to use Unionpay in Macau - Unionpay rate is competitive here, no foreign currency translation charge and decent $6/mile earn rate.

I remember you telling me you use UnionPay for taxis and the like in Macau. Do you find yourself using UnionPay in the Mainland too or only in Macau where the exchange rate is fixed? Certainly fewer headaches not having to worry about DCC. :D

More of an acceptance issue.
My best unionpay earns 1.3 miles per usd (roughly 1.67% if I use a 1.28cpm valuation). Unionpay is usually 1.5% cheaper than fubon visa (below) except in Macau and China where it's 2%

Fubon v/m earns double miles (3.33%) overseas

So it's a wash. I didn't bother pulling out the unionpay in france.

Hi FT'ers,

I understand this thread is predominantly about DCC when you are present at the POS but I have a case where this happened to me on an internet purchase.

I booked a hotel with IHG at an Intercontinental property. I have not stayed there yet but it is a prepaid rate and so I cannot cancel it. The reservation was online and the final price was quoted in EUR. When I checked my credit card statement online yesterday I saw that they had performed DCC and charged my card in GBP. I have a credit card with 0% forex fees and a very good exchange rate so the amount was significantly worse than if my credit card provider had performed the conversion. It was nearly £20 more than I was expecting.

I am still waiting for the reservations department of the hotel to get back to me as the front desk agent denied they had performed the conversion and insisted my credit card company must have converted it to GBP.

Does anyone have any experience of this? I am guessing the same rules apply and that they have to have my consent to do the conversion?

Thanks,
Andy

Hi AndyRobin

Yes DCC on prepaid rate (Amsterdam). The hotel sent the scalp back as a credit to the card.