Is Norwegian Air's multi-currency similar to hotel.com and Agoda's?

My expeirence with the two site's multi-currency function is that the conversion is generally fair (definitely fairer than DCC).

And as my cards have Foreign Currency Conversion Charge of 1.95% and nil (if we're careful about which cards we use) HKD payment FTF, I still find it's better to pay in HKD and skip the 1.95%.

(I have a card that earns HK$3/mile (2.6 miles/US$) on overseas spend regardless of HKD or not. No FTF (at least in practice))

As Europe is Chip-and-PIN, I think they are relieved of the need to retain documentary evidence (signed card slip with tick box). In Harrods/GL/El Cortes Ingles I was never given a box to tick.

Yes in theory. In HK and Singapore for instance, a case probably can be made that a card slip is like a cheque http://www.chipandspin.co.uk/spin.pdf - forged signatures are void (and we've 200 years of case law on that), and paying probably wrong amount is bank's fault too.

But in the case of DCC issuers comply with this as unwillingly as EU airlines comply with EU261/2004 requirements to inform passengers of their rights.

It seems to be an onerous obligation (having to file a lot of paperwork but they don't get paid for it). Otherwise i don't know why Schwab will simply pay cardholders off out of pocket.

Even issuers here in HK tend to pass the buck unless you've a prima facie case (carbon card slip or snapshot of a merchant one (and from the Maldives experience your smartphone will always fxck up when you try to take a quick snapshot!)). Of course we hold the sword of damocles over them if we have the prima facie case cos we can take it to the (overstaffed) bank regulator HK Monetary Authority and let them harrass the banks, but I don't think the CFPB is so accomodating or resourceful.

I had DCC imposed on me at the Hotel Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse back in March. The desk clerk claimed it was "automatic" when she swiped my CapitalOne Visa card. I made her cancel the charge and re-do it in Euros, but she refunded the first transaction in Euros instead of USD, so in the end I was still hit with their 3% DCC scam.

The reply of "it's automatic" won't hold up in a chargeback situation. I would have refused a refund and asked for a voided transaction, but I would still file a dispute. If the issuer wants to eat the cost, I'm fine with that, but it doesn't help solve the problem. This is why we need to be as specific as possible when requesting the proper chargeback codes and specifically the amount by which we were overcharged.

I agree that my phone malfunctions right as I'm about to take a picture. If there is a tick box, I'll make sure I get a photo of that receipt. In places where the quote slip is honored such as Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, HK (sometimes), Macau (rarely), I'll make sure that the final receipt is free of DCC. At, hotels, I'll make sure to specify the local currency when checking in. It's unfortunate that such a defensive posture is required, but merchants refuse to give a free and clear choice, I'll continue to fight DCC.

I'm wondering in these situations if the cashier is unable to void the transaction if it is better to "accept" the DCC and file a dispute with your bank to try to force a Reason Code 76 chargeback?

If the [European] cashier says her terminal can only do refund not void, yes - do not refund it and dispute it instead.

Is this issue about not being able to void the transaction only limited to Europe?

On a somewhat related note, should I still deface a receipt and write "local option not offered" when it is simply an authorization hold upon check-in? The only place where this has happened has been the Novotel in Taoyuan Taiwan, but I didn't fight it too hard because it was only an authorization hold that I was told wouldn't actually get charged. It did end up falling off of my pending transactions after a few days, and I was able to settle the bill in TWD. However, I feel like not all places would be as honest.

From my own experience and to the best of my knowledge from FT and elswhere this only only been experienced in Europe; however in theory this can happen anywhere (I don't think there is any requirement for Visa merchants to include a void button).

Well if it is an auth, by definition it needs to be posted at least - recall also the experience how my missus was almost DCCed on express checkout had we not insisted on signing a card slip.

I would suggest:
- for holds, hand over an Amex where accepted. One whose limits you don't plan to use.
- finalise with V/MC.

I don't get how any credit card terminal can lack a "void" mechanism. Mistakes occur sometimes accidentally sometimes deliberately. Something costs €23.00 and the merchant accidentally slips on the decimal point and enters €2300 and the purchase is authorized whether with dcc or not. You mean to tell me there is no way a merchant can void the transaction to correct the error? Or what in those situations where a merchant pulls the dcc scam without permissin of the scamee and rather than fight it, the scamee decided to pay cash. You mean to tell me in this situation the transaction cannot be voided? Again, I have two words for that and the first word is a synonym for a male cow.

One of the problems with a refund as opposed to a void from my understanding but I could be wrong is that if one is moronic enough to use a credit card with a ftf, the 3% is added to purchases and subtracted from refunds. I don't know if that is still the policy, indeed it was once but if it is, then you lose 6% on the transaction. That is why any payment system must included a provision for voids because errors happen even accidentally.

Depending on when the refund is processed there are actually different ways to link the refund to the original transaction.... but you also need to realize that sometimes the software of a POS is set-up in a way that the average user only has limited options, for instance to combat fraud by doing refunds. That's also why sometimes the DCC option is prominent and the local currency might not even exist in that basic user screen.

You correct by refunding.
It works perfectly from a local currency point of view.

Also:
- in both Harrods's and GL's cases, the card terminal is tightly integrated into the POS, so corrections can only be done on an item-by-item basis not a slip-by-slip basis; and
- provided Harrods and/or GL is charged interchange on a net basis by their acquirers, they aren't given much incentive to void slips as opposed to charging and refunding them.


As the up-himself Global Blue service person in GL Montparnesse told me - that's an issue for you and your issuer bank

Yeah, using AmEx for holds is a good route to go. In one case I think it even prevented me from being charged DCC. (This was at Hotel Arts in Barcelona.) To hold the room I used my AmEx, but I settled the bill using a Visa from Chase. The receipt alluded to the option of paying in your home currency, but I scrutinized the entire receipt to make sure there weren't any dollar signs or indication of USD being charged. I have no way of knowing if using AmEx initially kicked the system out of DCC mode, but it's something I can try this fall in Macau if we stay at the Venetian again.

This won't work at the Novotel in Taoyuan because the credit card terminal and reservation system aren't linked, but I will ask to settle the bill using a card other than the AmEx. This is one thing I like about how checkout is done outside of North America where you settle the bill upon checkout rather than checking out offline. It reduces the chance of surprises later on.

Reading through the wiki, I'd like to make a pointer:

On the part that says:

"If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute."

Dispute where should be clarified.

• To VISA or MC?
• To your credit card issuer? If so, which department? Clueless frontline script reading CSRs in India over the phone? CSR supervisors who are hopefully based in the US? Specific department?
• To the network bank that did the DCC? If so, which department? Clueless frontline script reading CSRs over the phone? CSR supervisors? Specific department?
• The merchant? If so, is the dispute towards the minimum wage cashier who doesn't care and has no management authority? The manager who's following management rules and has no authority to override board member decisions? Or the board members of the company itself?
• The POS terminal manufacturer?

There's many players in the credit card transactions environment so where and whom to dispute to should be spelled out.

And if possible I really suggest creating a downloadable template for this to make it easier to do disputes. They make the DCC process systematic to their benefit with layers of corporate bureaucracy, but there's no systematic method to file a dispute. Then, it's up to us as consumer to make it systematic to do disputes as well.

In reality there's only two parties that you should complain to:
- the merchant that charges your card
- your credit card company for a dispute claiming you didn't get the option to pay in the local currency

I can edit the wiki, but I think there's little doubt that the dispute is filed with the card issuer, similar to a fraudulent charge. You certainly wouldn't go contacting the POS terminal manufacturer in the event of a fraudulent charge.

The problem with a template is that each issuer has different forms when filing a dispute. The best we can hope for his using consistent language like requesting a "Reason Code 76 chargeback" when filing a dispute with your issuer if the card is a Visa. However, I've not had any consistency among issuers with the process of disputing a transaction. Most allow a dispute online now. Others will mail forms. Some will do both. So there isn't a one-size-fits-all template or flowchart that I can really create.

Also many issuers for small amounts don't want to be bothered and evenif you request a charge back will simply credit you the difference as happened to me twice...in one case I was disputing a dcc where I never was asked to sign a sales slip and didn't realize I had been gouged till I looked at the slip. The total damage was about 34¢ but to me there is a principle. Of course, it would cost me whatever first class postage is these days to dispute the charge by mail so I tried over the phone. Sure enough, the csr said she would credit the 34¢ and not charge it back. In principle, I wanted it charged back and the amount wasn't that important but there was little else I could do (no, at that point somehow I don't think it would look right to say no to the offer, after all they were resolving the issue in my favor although Majuki anted me to pursue a chargeback. If I could have found their fax number, I can fax for free, I might have!

I would have gladly paid first class postage to fight DCC on a nominal amount to the point of pursuing a chargeback in the event I am unwillingly hit with DCC. :D But I understand as a matter of practicality issuers will just eat the charge for small amounts, probably similar to fraudulent charges. I don't know what the threshold would be though to file a chargeback.

For the most part, I think the information necessary to file a dispute is the same regardless whether there's a different form format between BofA, Citibank, Chase or some obscure credit union.

It's probably the same fields: your name as written on your credit card, your account number, purpose (reason code), date of transaction, attach copy of receipt in dispute, memo field. Surely they're not going to ask you the name of your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. :D

But as soon as the issuers start realizing that more and more people are asking for 34 cent chargebacks, it ends up becoming a large amount overall. 34 cents times one million people filling DCC disputes every day adds up to $124 million in chargebacks per year. That's the level we want to go to: to make them realize how big the figures are through power play by the numbers.

That's the idea. It might be a small amount individually but can really add up in the aggregate. It's kind of like the EMV fight where issuers started to listen to many customer demands of their magstripe only cards being refused overseas.

Hotwire
 

Hotwire does it all the time. I am Canadian. I always checkout in USD and they charge me in CAD. Any clue on how to avoid the fee?

It depends how they process the transaction. It's always hard to tell with some of these online websites. Does your bank charge a foreign transaction fee? I haven't had direct experience with Hotwire, but you can always file a dispute with your card issuer if you are getting hit with DCC.

I think next time you need to watch the steps on Hotwire very carefully. It should be kind of hidden at a stage.

Like Avis, its website's account management portal has a check-box described as "convenient of paying in your home currency, opt-out" kind of stuff.

Fresh meat - DCC by Venetian and Chevignon Macau http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12533&p=1

This case should be fun cos the issuer (HSBC HK) is very cardholder friendly, so the DCC victims (a hongkongcard.comer and her husband) should be able to get a chargeback done.

Aren't most charges in Casino hotels in Macao in HK$ anyway?

Guess that's kind of a tricky situation?

Nope. Mop is the legal tender, pegged at mop103 to hkd100. All merchants are supposed to bill by that, even tho hkd is (and merchants prefer) hkd cash payment at 1:1 for obvious reasons.

Because mop is the legal tender, card terminals bill that as local currency without exception (not sure if true for gambling advances inside casino, never tried that)

Regulators are not as strong there (and dare I blame them for being closer to the motherland than us?) DCC is rife.

Thanks for the explanation, it's some time ago I was in Macao last (3 years imho) so my knowledge, especially about DCC, is a bit outdated. I remember they also preferred getting paid in HK$, and Casino gambling areas were (and most certainly still are) 100% HK$ only.

I guess if your own currency is just 3% lower, and you happily accept "foreign" cash at 1:1 rate, lots of HK people won't even bother to change money but just use their local one as exchange would eat up parts anyway plus then they would get stuck with leftovers. With credit cards, and especially DCC, it's a different matter, though, obviously.

If coming from HK and dining/shopping at chain establishments it is definitely advantageous to use cards.

And (a bit Quisling at this) using Unionpay in particular - low rates (almost at the peg - 0.971), no DCC, good acceptance and decent rewards (1 mile per $6 paid)

It's been about three years since we've been there too, but we're ready to go back in September:


http://i.imgur.com/MDHpd0Rm.jpg

:D:D:D

I do remember for cash transactions being able to request change in HKD without a problem. The two or three times we took a taxi they were happy to oblige, and I remember some fast food places giving change in both Patacas and HKD.

I see that the Venetian is still pulling the DCC scam. :td: What I can do if we stay there this time around is be upfront about being billed in Patacas and settling the bill in Patacas. Back in July 2011 I was ignorant of DCC, and I didn't know I had been hit until after I had gotten back home. This was the first place where I got hit involuntarily with DCC. I always knew paying in local currency was best, but I had always been given the quote slip in Taiwan. I thought it had something to do with the MOP:HKD exchange rate when I was seeing an amount 3% higher than what it ought to have been. On an 830 USD hotel bill that was a nice $25 profit they made on me. I bet they haven't changed their system in three years, but I definitely wasn't asked if I wanted to be billed in USD.

I don't know why DCC seems to be rampant in Taiwan because I don't see many tourists there even in Taipei. I get it in HK, Macau, or even Mainland China where you have a lot of foreign currency cards, but I'm wondering how this gets to be a problem. Perhaps the acquirers are the ones pushing DCC to the machines as evidenced by certain POS terminals not even allowing a merchant who's willing to work with the customer to disable DCC?

(At least the carbon one) I thought these slips were banned after 2011:

No tick box (outside of Europe), "no commission" when this is blatantly untrue (the currency peg means there is no rate but 0.971...the slip rate is 0.997)

http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito...4930_14815.jpg

In some cases this may be true http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...l#post16343265 .

But in places we don't go to often (like Venetian) we don't know which is the real case - a helpless merchant or a lying merchant.

I bet the acquirer ends up taking the largest cut here, and it's the nearly perfect crime. The bulk of customers won't realize they've been cheated, and the few in the know can usually get out of DCC. Then you have cases where staff haven't been trained, POS terminals are locked, or things are setup in a way where a customer is forced into DCC. In this case the customer disputes the transaction, and the risk is on the merchant if a Reason Code 76 chargeback results. Now, this might have the effect of the merchant having a little chat with the acquirer and training staff, but that is after the fact.

I'd suspect in a lot of these cases the acquirers steer the payment terminals toward DCC such that disabling it is extremely unintuitive or the non-preferred option. It's just like the ANZ terminal in Brisbane at the coffee shop. The cashier was saying, "Oh. Press OK." The terminal was saying, "Accept exchange 1.03566 AUD?" or something similarly esoteric. If I hadn't had the terminal in my possession we would have had a problem because the cashier would have repeatedly pressed OK. I had to pause for 10 seconds to make sure I pressed the correct button (cancel) because that move was critical to generating the DCC free slip.

I have always had this issue in mainland Europe, however my recent trip to Lithuania showed that some places are still untouched - DCC in sight!

I've also spent the morning educating colleagues in how to avoid Ryanair's sky high DCC... How they get away with such a high mark up is unbelievable.

Re Majuki - also it's an effective piece of social engineering.

Turns out the hubby of the hongkongcard.comer actually agreed to DCC in the Chevignon case.

For the uninitiated it's asking "do 1,109 x (100/103) x (1+your bank foreign currency conversion charge" in your head in 5 seconds.

(Though I don't know what is going through the head of that hubby, for MOP1,109 = HKD1,109.09 (MOP/HKD > 1) is definitely a stinker of a deal.

That's unfortunate. I don't know why people think it's a good deal, especially with a known exchange rate between MOP and HKD. :(

At least you know it has something to do with the exchange rate. The cashier has to press cancel against "Print next receipt?" in order to get out of Global Payments Maldives DCC.

I can answer the question in general. Because they're lazy. Americans especially don't have a clue about currencies and exchange rates and the like (not saying this is an exclusive American trait but they seem to be the most ignorant).

They buy something and they're told it costs €200. They have no clue so ask how much is that in real money or maybe they do say how much is that in American money. Today, of course, every last smart phone (even the old pre smartphone mobiles) has a calculator and even has a currency exchange key but they're too lazy to use that. Now picture going into the same shop and the clerk telling you that they can write the charge up in dollars if you wish and it is whatever in dollars. Maybe they ask which is better. Or the clerk starts throwing out the lies how you can lock in the exchange rate by doing it now or perhaps the clerk says nothing and presents you with a dcc'd sales draft to sign and if you start asking tells you it's a great rate and to compare it with the bank rates in the windows (of course we know the bank rates in the window are for cash and far far worse than the rate the cc companhy will give even if you're moronic enough to use a cc with the asinine should be illegal 3% ftf) or they may tell you the rate in your currency is shown for your convenience and is an approximation and you're really being charged in euro or it's done automatically by the terminal and they have no control over it (an advantage of course perhaps of chip and pin if you are asked for your pin before the fatefaul moment the exchange is done by the terminal) or sorry once it's done the transaction can not be undone (we've discussed that right here just in the last few posts). Or another is this will avoid the credit card foreign currency exchange fee of the naughty credit card company. I've even seen in some Caribean countries the lie that the government requires all purchases be converted to US dollars for Americans. Whether the cashier believes any of this is moot, those are the lies they're trained to tell.

So ultimately knowing how naive many travelers are, what do you think is going to happen? That's what keeps dcc going. (BTW you might find interesting some of the brochures for merchants outlining the advantages of dcc and of how their customers love to be quoted the price in a currency they understand!)

I will say two things one time and stop before I send this thread down a tangent that will earn a one-way ticket into OMNI/PR territory. First, you interject insistently that credit card surcharges, foreign transaction fees, etc. should be illegal, yet you freely have admitted to charging surcharges to your own customers. Second, I don't know what it is with you and America bashing. DCC is a problem that affects more than just Americans using their cards overseas. Yes, we've all seen the ugly American stereotype abroad, but the obnoxious tourist can be different nationalities depending on the location.

When you witness a tourist confused about the exchange rate, do you make an attempt to educate that person, or do you just engage in a moment of schadenfreude knowing that the tourist is about to be ripped off with DCC (plus likely a 3% FTF card)? Truthfully, I've never seen a DCC transaction where the person was demanding to pay in "real money". In all of the cases I've seen, the DCC happens without the customer realizing it, and the merchant doesn't say anything. Before I got educated on what DCC was, I was unknowingly hit a couple of times. In none of those instances did the staff at the hotel indicate that DCC was happening, and I didn't realize that I had been billed USD at an extremely unfavorable exchange rate (luckily on a 0% FTF card).

Furthermore, it's instinctive to retreat to something you know, so when asked the question, "Do you want to use EUR or USD?" people will usually reply, "Oh... USD!" But this is no different than the post from the other day about the person selecting HKD over MOP. It's just an issue of familiarity and what the instinctive reaction from the person will be. Other people would be surprised that it's an option. "You mean I can pay in <issued card currency>?" The cashier is just likely to respond, "Yes." I have never, not once, heard a merchant extoll the supposed benefits of DCC. In contrast, the only time that I've heard the lies start is when a customer in the know is attempting to get out of a forced DCC situation.

When you witness these situations in the wild, it is a perfect opportunity to educate the person. Give the person access to the tools to get the current exchange rates. Tell the person that it's always better to pay in the local currency because the credit card will get the best exchange rate. Avoid letting the merchant say they can offer you a known exchange rate upfront because it's far worse than what you'd get from Visa/MC. Finally, if the person is using a card with a FTF, let that person know of options for cards without FTF. Sure, some people might not want the help or advice, but in my experience most have said, "Thanks for the information. I didn't know that before!"

This is true. If the terminal had said, "Print next receipt?" I would have pressed OK. :(

My understanding of Macau vs HK is more like a English culture vs Latino culture. We all know what the situations are in London and Paris. If you take a black taxi in London, enjoyed the ride and the professional service provided by the driver, arrived at St Pancres, which is a beautiful and clean train terminal, board a Eurostar, and 2 hours later, you arrive at Gare du Nord, a much less clean terminal than St Pancres, walk out, see unorganized taxi stand outside, and enjoy some fierce driving in the chaotic street of Paris, and maybe at the destination you have to haggle with the driver a bit...

Although HK is not as clean and organized as London, I would say the difference between HK/Macau is quite similar to London/Paris. HK and Macau even have a 2-hour water in between, too...

Last time I was in Macau, I couldn't find bus stations, as I did not in Paris this time...