Authorised Users with same card number
Jul 25, 2013 | 10:01 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Authorised Users with same card number
Hi guys,
Does anyone have any experience with how good fraud systems are when an authorised user has the same card number as you and you are abroad and they are not or vice versa?
Does that not throw up problems as it could look like someone has travelled around the world in 10 minutes. Will that not cause an issue or are fraud systems clever enough to notice the different discretionary data and PAN chip number? In this case the card provider I'm referring to is Capital One.
Does anyone have any experience with how good fraud systems are when an authorised user has the same card number as you and you are abroad and they are not or vice versa?
Does that not throw up problems as it could look like someone has travelled around the world in 10 minutes. Will that not cause an issue or are fraud systems clever enough to notice the different discretionary data and PAN chip number? In this case the card provider I'm referring to is Capital One.
Last edited by reclusive46; Jul 25, 2013 at 10:12 am
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:16 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Intermountain West
Programs: Too many to list
Posts: 12,743
Hi guys,
Does anyone have any experience with how good fraud systems are when an authorised user has the same card number as you and you are abroad and they are not or vice versa?
Does that not throw up problems as it could look like someone has travelled around the world in 10 minutes. Will that not cause an issue or are fraud systems clever enough to notice the different discretionary data and PAN chip number? In this case the card provider I'm referring to is Capital One.
Does anyone have any experience with how good fraud systems are when an authorised user has the same card number as you and you are abroad and they are not or vice versa?
Does that not throw up problems as it could look like someone has travelled around the world in 10 minutes. Will that not cause an issue or are fraud systems clever enough to notice the different discretionary data and PAN chip number? In this case the card provider I'm referring to is Capital One.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:30 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 6,641
In my experience, this is usually only the case with Amex cards. With Mastercards and Visas the numbers on all the cards are the same (both primary and authorized users), but the names are different. At least this is the case with my current Amex accounts - different numbers on each card - as opposed to my Visa and Mastercards where the numbers are all the same.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:31 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHL, maybe EWR
Programs: Plat IHG, Marriott Rewards Silver, CSP, Ink Bold, USDM, *Wood Gold, AA, Club Carl
Posts: 285
The Ink Bold MC employee (AU) cards are different numbers under the same account too.
In my experience, this is usually only the case with Amex cards. With Mastercards and Visas the numbers on all the cards are the same (both primary and authorized users), but the names are different. At least this is the case with my current Amex accounts - different numbers on each card - as opposed to my Visa and Mastercards where the numbers are all the same.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:31 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 757
Amex gives different numbers, but I though VISA/MC do not.
That said, when you swipe the card there is more data on the mag strip than the numbers and the banks can tell which card was used. Similar, they track if it was an actual swipe versus an on-line input for their files.
Or so I read. If some one wants to challenge the assertion, I could be wrong.
That said, when you swipe the card there is more data on the mag strip than the numbers and the banks can tell which card was used. Similar, they track if it was an actual swipe versus an on-line input for their files.
Or so I read. If some one wants to challenge the assertion, I could be wrong.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:34 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:41 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 6,641
Possibly because that is a business card - I do have an Ink Bold but haven't added employee/AU cards so was not aware if they use the same numbers or not. The other Visas and Mastercards I hold are all personal.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:43 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
From your experience have you ever had any of your AU's using their card abroad or just far away and then transactions in your normal area? Did it cause any issues?
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:49 pm
#9
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
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Posts: 51,863
In my experience:
However, if a card is swiped the issuer can determine which card was used, even if the embossed number is the same, and there should be no problem with cards being used in different shops, cities or countries simultaneously.
- Business accounts assign a unique number to each card. Any issuer, any network: Amex, MasterCard or VISA.
- Personal accounts issued by American Express assign a unique number to each card.
- Personal accounts issued by other US based banks, even if Amex-network, typically assign the name number to all cards on the same account.
However, if a card is swiped the issuer can determine which card was used, even if the embossed number is the same, and there should be no problem with cards being used in different shops, cities or countries simultaneously.
Jul 25, 2013 | 1:52 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
In my experience:
However, if a card is swiped the issuer can determine which card was used, even if the embossed number is the same, and there should be no problem with cards being used in different shops, cities or countries simultaneously.
- Business accounts assign a unique number to each card. Any issuer, any network: Amex, MasterCard or VISA.
- Personal accounts issued by American Express assign a unique number to each card.
- Personal accounts issued by other US based banks, even if Amex-network, typically assign the name number to all cards on the same account.
However, if a card is swiped the issuer can determine which card was used, even if the embossed number is the same, and there should be no problem with cards being used in different shops, cities or countries simultaneously.
Jul 25, 2013 | 2:04 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHL, maybe EWR
Programs: Plat IHG, Marriott Rewards Silver, CSP, Ink Bold, USDM, *Wood Gold, AA, Club Carl
Posts: 285
Another odd wrinkle...my Personal Barclays Upromise MC has a slightly different number then my AU's. As I recall it maybe only the last 4 digits that are different.
Jul 25, 2013 | 2:23 pm
#12
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,900
Does anyone know of a USA based personal MC or Visa card that will issue additional cards with different numbers? My specific need is for a family member that has household staff and would like to break out each staff member purchases. I had to resort to a business card product
Jul 25, 2013 | 2:30 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHL, maybe EWR
Programs: Plat IHG, Marriott Rewards Silver, CSP, Ink Bold, USDM, *Wood Gold, AA, Club Carl
Posts: 285
Personal Barclays Upromise MC.
And it does separate it on the statement.
And it does separate it on the statement.
Does anyone know of a USA based personal MC or Visa card that will issue additional cards with different numbers? My specific need is for a family member that has household staff and would like to break out each staff member purchases. I had to resort to a business card product
Jul 25, 2013 | 3:06 pm
#14
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold for Life, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 8,371
My boyfriend and I have Visa and Mastercard cards from Citibank and AmEx cards, and it has never been a problem. Visa and Mastercsrd do have the same card numbers but it never caused any problems. We usually let them know if either of uss is travelling but even if we're not it never caused a problem. And we permanently live abroad to begin with.
Jul 25, 2013 | 3:15 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,686
Does anyone know of a USA based personal MC or Visa card that will issue additional cards with different numbers? My specific need is for a family member that has household staff and would like to break out each staff member purchases. I had to resort to a business card product
A business card would seem to be the best solution. Alternatives would be to use an Amex personal product or to just open a separate personal account for this purpose and put the primary cardholder's card in a drawer.