Card refused because it had a smart chip...why?
 

I'm in the U.S. and a merchant at my local mall refused my card because it had a chip. She swiped it and said her machine refused it because of the chip. Why on earth would she say that? I wonder if she was using the machine wrong or something because I've never had someone claim they couldn't process my card. Besides that, she swiped the strip on the back and the chip was never even inside the machine.

Anyone else had a problem such as this? Was it a clueless employee or what? I mean, if for some reason it saw the chip, it should have just asked for the PIN right?

What's going on here?

She was probably a bit clueless. She should have then inserted the card in the slot, but clearly didn't.

Card refused because it had a smart chip...why?
 

Poorly trained, clueless employee who may have never seen a credit card with a chip before. Honestly, most American credit cards do not have them.

No slot, we don't use the smart chips here, it's just for foreign travel...so far. She just swiped it like any other card and then looked at the machine rather clueless...it was probably asking something standard like debit or credit and she couldn't understand it...first and only time its happened so far.

No it almost certainly DID have a slot. That's why it refused the stripe transaction - the card has the service code "use IC when feasible"

PS what merchant was this - a lot of us are tracking the enabling of EMV. What type of terminal? The chip slot was probably facing her on a countertop terminal. Next time this happens tell her "you have to insert the card into the slot on the front of the terminal" - problem solved.

I'm in the US a lot and I've seen many many machines in the US with the chip reader slot, just many of them are not enabled. I've used my UK Chip and Pin Amex via the chip in Century 21st in New York City.

I had a similar experience at a restaurant in the US as well though, Merchant said my card was declined, when I didn't get a text message (Amex always text me if its declined) I asked what the message was and he said it kept saying "Use Chip", I had to show him how to process an EMV transaction.

Reminds me a little of a problem in Australian restaurants. In Australia restaurants will normally have EMV machines but to save money they don't get handheld machines. This means they take your card and then press PIN-bypass and it asks for a signature instead. Unfortunately UK issuers and Canadian issuers don't allow the PIN to be bypassed, so it just says declined. I found this out after I apparently had 4 cards declined lol and asked what they hell they were doing. Now though, Restaurants will generally ask, "Does your card need a PIN?" and you then have to walk up to the counter and enter it. I get this all the time in Asia as well, Thailand mainly.

And even if it did have a slot the store manager should be able to bypass it since they sometimes don't work quite as advertised (anyone remember a store pulling out one of these below?)

http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/e...rk-800x800.jpg

lol when I went to Legoland here in the UK last year, their computer system had broken so they were using these.

What was even better is that they don't take Amex but that didn't stop them zip zapping it :P I never got charged for the tickets or food or drinks for the entire day.

haha, nice!

Do you guys have this list published somewhere?

It's a slowly evolving list, and it's evolving in (recent posts in) the existing main thread about this subject:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html

Ah, I looked, but only saw talk aout which cards were getting it, not which merchants were supporting it.

It's in the EMV thread it's basically limited to a small number of:

Macy's
Sports Authority
Walmart
Citibank ATM
Jack-In-The-Box

Maybe a few others I missed. Not by any means all of these shops' locations, Sports Authority here doesn't have EMV terminals. Wal-Mart's just say "Card Problem Remove Card."

BP pay at pump in New York City as well, which surprised me lol

If you were aware they couldn't take Amex, isn't that kinda a form of theft?

I think we all need to be ready when dealing with small merchants to realise any one of us could, by some bad luck, be the first user of an IC card after a merchant's acquirer enables EMV. It's unlikely where I live (LOTS of tourists) but in other places, very possible. Just tell them "insert the card into the slot" and unless they just refuse because they're clueless, problem solved :)

Last time I was in the US (I'm not american and have no US bank accounts or credit cards) I paid with a debit card for most of my purchases. The problem then for me was that when I chose "debit" they required me to insert my PIN but didn't respond to it when I did. So I had to chose "credit" to enable me to withdraw money.

The "chip enabled card" was only a problem once, but I think I moved the card myself so it worked out okay anyway. Once I inserted my card and was told to swipe it, I politely declined and paid.

I didn't actually realise until I went to get a drink before I left and she said that they don't take Amex.

Ah, their loss then. That place is darn expensive and rather boring too!

It was a standard swipe machine, just to read the magnetic strip. There was no other way of inserting the card. That's what threw me on the whole thing. What was she doing wrong by just sliding the card?

Are you positive? Not in the bottom front? A machine wouldn't be telling her to insert the card if it didn't have an EMV slot.

All I know is that she said the message was telling her she couldn't take it. Yet I've used it at that store a dozen times. Why would it do it that time only?

I've never encountered a machine to use a chip. In fact, they haven't even sent me a PIN number to use if I ever encountered it.

What happens if is a chip machine and asks for it? Don't I then need a PIN number to enter, which I don't yet have?

You probably haven't been looking very hard. About 50% of big retailers (If not more) including places like Walmart and CVS and many small merchants have EMV machines, many of them are just not enabled yet.

As your card is probably a chip and signature card, the merchant would insert it and it would ask for a signature, like usual.

On my business and personal trips to US with my UK cards, I probably do a chip and pin transaction once or twice during the trip these days(Normally 2 weeks).

I have the citi visa Hilton honors reserve.

Sounds like next time it happens I may have to give her some instructions. It's is the first card I've had with a chip. I can't think of any other reason than she didn't know what she was doing. If the chip portion of the reader wasn't enabled, then it should have just done a regular swipe right? Otherwise, as you said, it would say to insert the card to read the chip?

The Citi card is a chip and signature, so it will be insert and a signature receipt will be printed.

Thats correct though, it would have only asked her to insert the card if EMV is enabled on the terminal. So in this instance, it sounds like it is.

As a tip though, remember to keep the card in the slot until it specifically asks you (or her) to remove it. Its not like when you swipe it and then take the card straight away.

Also just in case you don't know what the EMV slot looks like, have a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpwURCjkDEw it shows a chip and pin transaction (Obviously with your card, it won't ask for a PIN).

Definitely an issue. She just told me they didn't take cards if they had a chip. Total nonsense is what it sounds like. She even called the main store, as this was a small kiosk in the middle of the mall, and didn't do a very good job describing...the lady on the other end probably had no idea what she was talking about. Or she may have thought she meant the cards you wave, in which her answer would have been correct. But given I've used the card there before and never an issue...

Indeed, sounds like very poor training. The machine was probably only enabled for EMV recently, as thats when all acquirers had to be able to accept EMV cards. I'd be reporting it to Visa/MC/Amex as a merchant violation. You can report her for both, failing to accept a chip card and failing to follow the terminal prompts and instructions.

lol its a shame she won't let you even insert the card (Even if she won't process it as one). It she put the card in backwards (I.e. with chip sticking out) 3 times, it would allow her to fallback and then swipe the card.

I've done this once or twice in the UK on self service machines when I've been in the US for a long long time and forgot my PIN. (I know very secure right :P).

I'm going to try again and if it happens again, then that sounds like a good idea. I ended up giving her my Amex instead. It's a cookie store at the local mall and I've not had an issue until now. I've never had someone reject a Visa card because it had an extra security measure...you're right, they obviously wasn't trained on that machine.

lol get the cookie, start eating it quickly and then go to pay with the chip card. Then you have the bargaining chip. Either you take my chip card or my half eaten cookie :P

It should be a simple matter of you knowing what it means and pointing out the chip slot, tell her to insert and to leave until the terminal prompts her to remove the card. If acceptance is still refused, call 1-800-VISA-911 for Visa or 1-800-MASTERC for MasterCard and tell them simply that your card is being refused at a merchant that displays the Visa/MasterCard logo. Do it WHILE there and while they're not busy so people behind you don't get too mad.

Reclusive - where on earth are you shopping you're seeing basically a chip transaction a week in the US? I live here and do most of my shopping with chip cards and I've never, once, done a chip transaction in the US. I think of chip transactions as something very, very rare at this point. The only place with EMV-enabled terminals around here is Walmart but they're only enabled on the PIN pad, if you actually insert the card it just throws an error (swiping works fine). Nowhere else has chip slots that react at all.

These days, its often a independent restaurant, which is annoying as it means I have to go to the counter and I enter my PIN. A few Walmarts I've sucessfully done a chip transaction, Davenport Florida comes to mind. A Pay at pump at a BP station in New York City I go to is also EMV enabled. A couple of independent shops. Oh and some of the Century 21st terminals in New York City have EMV turned on (Only some though). Some drug store in NYC that I can't remember name of.

Some restaurants the standard for dealing with EMV cards is to do a PIN-Bypass (Or if its chip and signature then the same thing) and then get the customer to sign but UK/Canadian/Kiwi cards don't allow PIN-Bypass. Keep an eye on your receipts as you may find it has been done via EMV, it should have the AID or ICC written on it.

Ah, sounds like those restaurants are probably all using the same acquirer. Walmart in FLORIDA has had EMV enabled for years now. Most of my credit card use is at the same few places, which makes sense why I haven't seen it. Traveling next weekend which will mix up my usage a little, maybe things will change.

Your probably right about the same acquirer they all seem to be using the same terminal. I think it was a Contactless Ingenico terminal, its the same/similar terminal that all McDonalds and Boots (National drug store) use here in the UK.

Interestingly in a bit of a turn of events, I had my card swiped at a restaurant here in the UK this evening lol The chip reader was broken. He did say it was a pain as about 15% of the transactions were being referred lol.

Being referred? Not sure what that means.

And Boots is no longer a British national company. They're American now, actually (part of Walgreens, which oddly enough means their cosmetics products are no longer sold here - Target USED to sell Boots products).

Referred as in where the merchant has to call for authorisation as an extra security check.

Never knew that about Boots. You learn something new everyday.

Yeah that happens a LOT with magstripe cards in London, especially buying Underground tickets, though normally they just type 0000 for the auth code instead of actually calling.

Worse than this is in Europe when cards are refused because they don't want to swipe it when there is a swipe terminal. An example is in Holland where all of the swipe areas are taped over but still work. They will do it, but for some reason don't like doing it....

I've never had the chip work in the USA outside of Walmart, and often have intelligent cashiers look at my card and say 'what's that?' when looking at the chip :)

The reason they don't like swiping it is because they don't understand the liability shift concept and believe they're responsible for any fraudulent transactions if they swipe a card (no, they're responsible if they only have swipe terminals, but that's a distinction hard to get across).

That, and the ones staffed at the cash register these days in most industrialized nations these days are mostly minimum wage earning part-time cashiers who are just following SOP protocol written by corporate HQ. The idea of "well if they want my money, they'll have to do it via swipe" might be ingrained in most older Americans these days, but the reality is that these days, people who want your money aren't the ones working the register - they are in a board room making conference calls to their stock holders. :)

If you are a minimum wage earning cashier working the register at a major retailer and the SOP manual provided by corporate says "do not use swipe" that's what they are going to do.

You can whine and complain about things like EMV, swipe, VISA/MC merchant agreements, from the standpoint of those people working the register, it's all gibberish. To them it's just "I get paid [minimum wage] and I'm only here for the summer as a part-time worker, I'm not making this my long term career, I'm just doing what the employee handbook says and frankly I could care less."

Last I week I was at the local airport and I saw the dispatcher/agent for Great Lakes using one of them. I almost forgot they even existed.

Exactly why the fact even the new Capital One Quicksilver isn't an IC card is just kinda... blind to people's real needs.