kebosabi

Many people have found that twittering @AskCiti gets a more knowledgeable person than calling over the phone. Maybe because they have access to Google the search term EMV at their fingertips.

I've also found it better nowadays to just twitter @AskCiti as I don't end up listening to bad elevator music while waiting for an agent to pick up the phone.

exbayern

Because not every country in Europe has the same level of usage, and because as stated below, the OP may not have been able to converse easily in the native language. And as pointed out, they may well not have been in a place 'that would only accept chip and pin cards.' Even in places such as France and the UK where chip and pin is extremely commonplace, swipe cards can often be used in place of chip and pin.

It would be like someone complaining about chip and pin usage in North America, when the level of usage is very different in Canada and the US.

OP may not have realised that he may have in fact been able to use a swipe card. Letting us know the specific country may impact responses.

kebosabi

I'd use the analogy in NA between the US and Mexico. English versus Spanish and mag-stripe vs. Chip-and-Pin.

Mexico has been on EMV for quite a while now. In normal touristy places like Acapulco or Cancun, they can easily distinguish a gringo versus a local by the credit card. No chip, ah must be a gringo norteamericano/na!

But off the beaten track where the locals do their shopping, you may find trouble looking for places that accepts a mag-stripe card. Even going to a Wal-Mart in Anytown, Mexico can be a bit frustrating for Americans as cashiers there aren't used to processing mag-stripes.

dasubergeek

I don't have a chip-and-anything card, and on my last trip to France, I found myself teaching people how to do swipe-and-sign. (Chip-and-PIN has been the rule in France since 1992, so now there's an entire generation of young retail clerks who have grown up never knowing of the existence of swipe-and-sign cards).

One of my colleagues had a Citi chip-and-sign card, and so she inserted it into the slot and it asked for a PIN, as usual.

I speak French fluently, and so I was able to explain.

"C'est comme les cartes pour les handicapés," I explained, "mais aux States tous les cartes à puces sont comme ça." It's like cards for the disabled (by European law, chip-and-sign must be provided for the disabled who can't enter a PIN—for example, people who have had strokes may not be able to enter a PIN), except that in the States all chipped cards are like that.

"Ah," he said, "saisissez quatre zéros alors."

My colleague typed in four zeroes and the receipt printed. He fetched a pen, she signed the ticket, her copy printed as normal, and we were off to the races.

It turned out to be good advice; in most places that did what I assume is offline verification, four zeroes worked beautifully. We were able to buy train tickets at the automatic ticket machines in both Paris and Lyon, we were able to rent bicycles at Vélo'V (the Lyon equivalent of Vélib'), and we were able to pay for tolls at the tollbooths on the A13.

The only issue we had was at a gas station in Meaux, where the reader refused the card. When I asked inside (fortunately it was open and not just a station-robot), they said the gasoline/petrol machines took that sort of card but not the gasoil (diesel) machines. What??

I'm still planning on applying for the Andrews FCU card before our next trip. What a pain in the behind.

For those who don't have a chip-and-PIN card or chip-and-signature card, all I can offer you is to bring identification, print out the following explanation in French, hand it over, and hope for the best.

Je regrette, mais les cartes de crédit américaines n'ont toujours pas de puce. Il faut passer la bande magnétique par la fente d'à côté (ou en haut). La machine imprimera un ticket, et il faut que je le signe. Je suis prêt(e) à vous prouver mon identité.

I hope this helps while we wait to join the twenty-first century.

apk123

Now we need someone with both chip&signature and Andrews FCU cards to try the four zeroes trick as much as possible in automated machines, and see whether the Andrews card is accepted when the chip&signature is denied. Any volunteers?

CMK10

When I was in Paris last year I was unable to get the machine at the CDG TGV/SNCF station to read my credit card because it was pin-less. I usually travel with cash when I'm abroad so this is rarely a problem.

cordelli

While that may make sense, the OP were pretty clear that they tried to swipe the cards and they were not read.

highflier1979

Ich war in Deutschland und ich spreche fließend Deutsch--seit 45 Jahren!

kebosabi

BeeNYC and RRossi already reported their experiences using the Andrews FCU card in automated stations:

Christopher

Don't you mean that well-known Mexican town, Cualquier Ciudad?

mr_edward_p

I know they are supposed to take the card with a pin and Chase has made this abundantly clear but the ticket vendor at the Copenhagen airport train station was having none of it.

I could have argued for another 15 minutes and gotten her on the phone with the bank but the people in the line behind me were about to get ornery.

Would be nice if Chase just agreed to assign me a PIN and be done with it.

oldpenny16

After my major Citi credit card was compromised in a security scare and another was ruined when somehow it got copied and used until shut down by Citi fraud, I'm working with Citi to replace my cards with chip and pin cards.

sdsearch

But that requires having both a chip & signature card as well as a chip & PIN card. Given still the relative scarcity of them, how many people here have both?

I have a Diners Club US (MC) chip & PIN card (sent proactively, ie without me asking, as a longtime Diners Club cardmember). I'm a few days into a week-and-a-half trip to Spain, but the train kiosks in Madrid didn't work at all (ie, it wasn't a card issue, it was a touchscreen issue, where it put up a keyboard on the screen and you were supposed to type by touching, but every kiosk get every other letter wrong, so it was impossible to do anything on the kiosk). And Madrid Metro stations said my PIN correct but then the main screen mysteriously just said transaction cancelled (presumably for some reason other the PIN being incorrect, but for what reason I couldn't tell). So I've not yet had a chance to use a work kiosk!!!

All humans I've given a swipe card to in Spain so far (in Madrid and Merida) have had zero problems taking my swipe card (which I prefer to use when it works because I have two 0% forex swipe cards but my only chip card, the DC MC, has a 3% forex). I didn't run into anyone who wouldn't take the swipe card except of course for places that take cash only.

Anyway, since I already have a chip & PIN card, I'm not jumping through hoops to get chip & signature card just as an experiment. I'd only be interested in chip & signature if one of my 0% forex cards (Marriott or Priority Club) offered it (I don't collect Hyatt points so I'm not going to get the Hyatt too just becuse it's early on chip & signature).

And I bet a lot of people are in a similar situation. Until there becomes more of an overlap between 0% forex cards and EMV (chip) cards, once someone has chip & PIN card, they're unlikely to want a chip & signature unless it has 0% forex and the chip & PIN card doesn't, or unless it eanrs some kinds of points/miles they prefer to collect than the chip & PIN card does.

apk123

But there are quite a few chip&signature cards available, some are not exactly esoteric, some with 0% forex. I have had in mind someone who already has a chip&signature card they like with 0% forex, such as BA or Hyatt, but due to their travelling have decided to get the Andrews FCU card just in case. Such a person would prefer to use their chip&signature card whenever possible over the Andrews FCU card.

Edit: Yes, I still realize that there aren't that many people with both (despite the reasonable scenario I described above), but FT would probably be a good place to find such people...

kebosabi

That, and considering Citi provides the EMV Chip-and-Signature option for those that ask for it (though it seems to be a hit-or-miss depending on which agent you talk to), I think existing Citi cardholders would eventually have all their cards upgraded to one with the EMV chip at one point or the other. Figuratively, how many FTers have a CitiAAdvantage MC or VISA card? Probably quite a lot (y'all didn't miss out on those credit card bonuses did ya?)!

Similarly with Chase, existing cardholders would probably get the EMV Chip-and-Signature upgrade sooner or later. So it's not just looking at new applicants, but also existing cardholders as well. That adds up to quite a big consumer base.

If that's the case, for someone who already has their Citi cards upgraded with Chip-and-Signature, they can also just open up an Andrews FCU Chip-and-PIN card as a back up, especially since it has no annual fee.