The new transcripts released by the NTSB about Colgan 3407 got me thinking about how these regional airlines compare to their peers with respect to pilot selection, training and ongoing testing/certification.

CBS is reporting that "Experts Say Regional Airline Pilots Lack The Volume Of Hours In Cockpit Of Counterparts At Major Airlines", which I think we all know, but stories like that bring these issues to the forefront of mainstream media.

I don't often fly the junglejet, but I know many of you do. Do any of you know if ExpressJet and other CO Connection/Express operators have more stringent standards for their pilots?

Even if they are more stringent, do the recent developments with 3407 make you more likely to take mainline jets in the future?

Don't get me wrong. I think the Q and RJ are safe planes, it's the experience of the men and women behind the wheel that I'm concerned about.

Back when XE had branded ops, I flew several times with pilots who were young. I don't think that this is a problem in and of itself. I did, however, experience some issues with how cabin pressure was handled. Instead of releasing it slowly, one crew effectively went from cruise to landing in about 30 seconds. For someone with sinus issues, it was incredibly painful.

Aside from that, I've never had a problem with regional airlines and crews. I still prefer mainline aircraft for comfort reasons, but I don't think I will specifically avoid regional aircraft for fear of poor crew training/experience.

+1
I will always first choose mainline for comfort however if it means I can get home sooner, I'll fly COEX.

I know a guy from college that failed his Airforce admissions test 3 times (I believe its a 3 stikes and youre out so he can never go into the AF). He now fly's for Express Jet on CO branded planes at age 24.

You don't say....

Pilot standards are pretty much set and approved by the FAA, so they don't differ much airline to airline. Also, to definitely find this out, you'd have to either go on hearsay or delve into company documents most people don't have access to.

However, thanks to the economic downturn, there are very few airlines that are hiring, so those few pilots hired are very experienced. Also, overall industry experience is also rising throughout the industry due to stagnation. It is very likely that the pilots who are flying you have been sitting in their seat for thousands of hours on top of the experience they brought to the airline when they were hired.

Furthermore, the supposed "lack" of experience of the captain in the Colgan crash is because he was previously a captain on another aircraft for Colgan and had just begun flying as captain on the Q400. He had a few thousand hours previous to that point in his career.

This is not unique to the regional world. Many major airline widebody captains were previously captains and first officers on completely different aircraft and also started with 0 hours in type. Training is what is the key in that situation.

I firmly believe that it wasn't inexperience in type that caused this crash, but an improper stall recovery and training.

My pay is tied to flying one, so I guess I'm going to have to get on one tomorrow morning. The captain next to me probably has about 4-5 thousand hours of flight experience, I'm quickly approaching the 3 thousand hour mark.

Nothing wrong with that! I know I'm preaching to the choir here on FT, but the only way this will change is when the general public stops demanding the lowest fare at all costs. This will help everyone concerned.

I'm curious what type of aircraft you were in, because the vast majority of airliners in the air, regional or mainline, have automatic pressurization systems. I'm thinking the system may have malfunctioned or the auto mode was broken and they were controlling it manually, which as much as a pilot tries will never be as smooth.

Also, unless one has flown a plane with a manual system, like the B1900, there is no way to practice manual pressurization until the system breaks, which is very rare.

Checko

You make it sound like he shouldn't be flying for ExpressJet because he failed and/or his age.

Why did he fail the admissions test and would those reasons have anything to do with flying an airliner?

Also, he seems to have passed his initial training and continues to pass his recurrent training, so why should we be concerned? If there was a problem, he wouldn't have a job, especially at ExJet.

Checko

It was the standard XJet RJ-145. I was not aware that it was an automatic system, but not surprised that it is, or at least should be. I drew my conclusions based on reading some forums set up by XJet employees. They had a pilot's forum where several of them expressed how they took sharp ascents, fast descents, manually changing cabin pressure as they finished up short final and so forth. Those pilots were all reportedly fairly new and doing those types of maneuvers because it was fun in the smaller aircraft.

I took most of it with a large grain of salt because these people were both young and on the Internet, a situation which does not lend itself to one being truthful and not exaggerated. Additionally, I know that ATC is controlling ascent, descent, and final approach altitudes and speeds, so it's not like the PIC can do anything he wants for fun. But still, the pressure changed very rapidly, much worse than any other flight I've ever been on. Who knows.

A little known fact about commuter/regionals is that many/most hire FOs at 18-19 years old (Colgan is 18, XJT is 19). Several companies have agreements with fast-paced flight schools (RAA, DCA, ATP, Gulfstream, etc) to give interviews at as low as 500 hours. Does this mean that every low-time pilot that interview gets a job? No. They still have to be qualified, pass sim checks, etc. Does this mean that we should think twice because of young/low time pilots? No. It means that those young/low-time pilots are the best of their peers to have gotten hired at that age/experience. Do I have any less faith in any Colgan or XJT (or other commuter/regional pilot) because they are young or have low time? Absolutely not. I'll get on a jungle-jet (or one of those super fun Saabs...hadn't had the joy of riding a Q yet) any day of the week without thinking twice.

One BIIIIG problem is the pilot mills that are turning out second in command pilots by the truckload. There is such high demand for the jobs that supply is many times demand and the price naturally goes down. A lot of these people are making less than 30k a year, I have seen stories as low as 22k a year for low time pilots in the right seat. Open up the back of any flying magazine and ther are half a dozen ads for a place that will guarantee you at least an interview with a regional carrier.

The problem with everyone demanding bargain basement fares is a big problem. The result is that they can only afford to pay pilots less than they would make as a night manager at Wendy's.

A BIGGER problem is a PIC who stalls a damn plane and then hauls back on the yoke! I got cured of that in my second flight lesson all those years ago. The CFI saw that I was going for that instinctive move to pull up when the plane started heading down and just let me get into a situation that the instructor had to get me out of. (This guy was absolutely unshakeable--one hell of a CFI!) In addition to needing fresh shorts, I learned right then and there once and for all, you don't cure a stall by raising the nose!

And yes, by the time a guy has 1,500 hours in the air, the minimum to be PIC on a scheduled airline, I damn well expect him to be able to recognize an incipient stall (especially when a STICK SHAKER clues him in) and I absolutely demand that he be smart enough to NOT pull up on the controls in a stall situation!!!!

--PP

Do you believe that the training from these fast-paced flight schools is rigorous enough that experience doesn't matter? Flying with a 19 year old FO and possibly a 24 year old pilot is as safe as flying with one who has 20 years of experience?

Maybe this isn't a fair comparison, but if you were undergoing a life and death surgery, would you want a doctor just out of med school or one that's done the procedure 100s of times with success?

Flying obviously isn't the same as surgery, but let's face it, you are putting your life in these peoples hands.

Parallel to the surgeon analogy above:

What do you call the lowest scoring graduate of a commercial flight school?

"Captain".

--PP

It's pretty damn close in that when things go right -- any qualified doctor can get the job done. It's when things go wrong that you want the grey hairs.

Even the best and the brightest 18-19 year olds who have aced every test and sim should have a *long* period oof supervision by others of greater experience.

not to overdo my medical alonolgy but .... say I aced the MCAT and kicked ... on my medical certification exams!.......didn't mean I was ready to practice medicine unsupervised at age 25 ........I still had 6 years of supervised work to go.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that experience doesn't matter, especially with someone that has gone "zero to hero" in just 9-12 months.

However, age and experience are not directly related and this crash definitely demonstrate that. Also, the fact someone is working for a regional doesn't automatically make them inexperienced. For some, flying out of the home airport and having the schedules that seniority brings mean a lot more than flying the "big iron."

I digress...

What matters to me is the pilot's (specifically the captain's) attitude and aptitude, not their age. Like any population, there are good and bad pilots. I've flown with both and flight hours are sometimes not the best way to judge how good a pilot is, nor does a young pilot does not automatically mean a bad pilot.

The irony here is that we keep bringing up the safety of 20 something pilots when the captain in this crash was in his forties.

Checko

I'm less concerned with the time in the cockpit than the performance when there, which according to what's been publicized about the Colgan pilot, was quite bad. This guy was failing left and right and didn't have proper training for the stick shaker.

A WSJ article today is calling out the fact that these guys get paid <20k a year. What they fail to note is that the jobs at express operations are basically stepping stones to get more experience so they can get jobs with majors.