Should CO Open Up Its Flight Sims for Extra Revenue?

One of the most wanted activities at the past DO's was the opportunity to use CO's flight simulators. Several years before 9/11, United and Lufthansa allowed the public to pay for time in their sims. A friend and I went to Franfurt and bought 2 hours in a 747 and flew into and out of many worldwide airports as we tested each other on various flying conditions (blizzards, engine failures, wind sheer, etc.) and really enjoyed it. After 9/11, naturally, those public uses shut down.

However, there remained one outfit in the US that did allow the public to buy time in their flight sims, Alteon, which has offices and sims in several different US cities. Yes, you have to provide them personal data beforehand. The problem was that their database of airports on board is limited, unless you specifically request certain ones to be added well in advance. However, all my previous attempts to see if any of the airlines were allowing public use of their own sims have proved negative. Until now.

BA has now opened up their sims to the public wishing to buy time. See this article for a reporter's experience:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dx2acx

"One-hour flights cost �399 in the 737-400 simulator. If you�re flash, the 747s and 777s cost �449. Three-hour flights are also available, but surely one hour is exhausting enough. Call 020 8513 3472 or visit ebaft.com"

I don't know if BA allows for time-sharing, as my friend and I did in Frankfurt.

So, the question, in this time of nickel and dime'ing passengers for almost every little thing, is - if Alteon and BA can do it, should CO look to work something with Homeland Security so that the approved members of the public can buy time in their sims in order to make a some extra revenue when their sims are otherwise idle? This assumes that there is idle time for their sims.

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Check out www.b737.com.

You need a pilots license but it is a start.

I'm surprised any airline would offer this. The financial consequences of being responsible for allowing a hijacker to get training on their simulators would be devastating I think. And for 400 pounds, how much vetting do you think they can do on applicants?

They are not operating as a flight training facility. They don't have to do background checks and they are not liable.

My understanding is that CO's sims are actually very heavily booked by CO and OAL employees and that there just isn't much downtime on them so there isn't much of an opportunity on this front.

It just really depends on what type of business Continental wishes to operate. Costco is in the business of creating the most value for their members and Southwest is in the business of getting Americans around the country as safely and inexpensively as possible. I've always thought of Continental as being the first class American network airline...not an experience-oriented company. Offering simulator rides, or a museum (as AA has in DFW) would be outside their enterprise logic.

This is a very true statement. I was one of the few at DoIV that received the privilege of the Sim tour... and I forgot my logbook, dammit! One of the major points was that the sims are almost ALWAYS booked up, either for recurrence training or similar functions, and there is very very little downtime.

Personally, I'd jump all over the "buy a couple hours" thing, I think it's a great idea. But I agree, the security and liability issues could be a great problem. At least I already have a license and am "background" cleared, so to speak.

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You should inquire about the B737.com offer-

2 hrs in a CO 738 sim + full day of instruction prior for $475.

Only req is citizenship + a basic pilots license - no ratings required.

Looks like they tend to do it around 5am on a Sunday given the heavy regular usage.

If I had my license would do it in a heartbeat at that price.

Actually companies are in the business of creating value for their shareholders, not necessarily their customers. Customers may be happy when they perceive they get a good value, which results in repeat customers which drives shareholder value. That is why Costco and WN tend to do well, when in fact they are very often not the most economical. There are cheaper ways to buy toilet paper than Costco, and WN is seldom the cheapest option out there. But people think they are, so that's where they go.

As for CO, it seems your concern is that CO would somehow dilute their image if they sold the simluator time. I guess it depends on how they market it. After all, CO owns a catering company, and most people don't even know it, because it's not something they go after regular consumers with. Though in the airline industry, many people know this (and some other airlines use Chelsea for their needs).

Selling simulator time to enthusiasts or high-end clientele wouldn't exactly turn CO into Six Flags. I'm sure they could target their audience appropriately without damaging CO's image. After all, marketing is one of the things CO does rather well. And of all U.S. airlines, they are probably the most sensitive to this issue.

Not only that. Let's remember that UA, as well as Lufthansa, used to have it available to the public who could pay for it in $ or in miles before 9/11. I don't think it was that well known. My friend and I flew to Frankfurt because we didn't know about UA in Denver, and he was a UA flyer. Had we known about it, we would've flown to Denver instead. Not sure how well Lufthansa (sorry, don't know their abbreviation) was publicizing it, but I read about it in Travel and Leisure, I think. The co-pilot was very tolerant of us after we learned how the computer set-up worked and started changing flight conditions to test one another. (He's the only person I've ever heard of who's flown into Kuwait during blackout blizzard conditions; there was no sandstorm setting; he landed successfully, though there was a little bit of hydroplaning at touchdown.)

We both came away very favorably disposed towards Lufthansa, but it's just not a convenient airline for either of us US-based travelers. But I did fly CO to Frankfurt or Berlin when I had to fly someplace in Europe that CO didn't fly to directly in order to fly Lufthansa from there. FWIW.

Also, without pilot licenses, another friend and I flew in the Alteon flight simulator in Miami about 2 years ago. There was Homeland Security clearance required beforehand. However, the Alteon co-pilot was less prepared to let us set up the parameters for flying, and the available airports, as I wrote above, were extremely few in the computer memory.

One more thing: BA also offers the Flight Safety Awareness session in a simulator for groups of 20, minimum:
* Tea and coffee on arrival in a private function room.
* Course introduction.
* Simulated flight on a full motion Boeing 737 cabin simulator, leading to an emergency landing and full aircraft evacuation from a smoke-filled environment.
* Full exercise debrief on the simulator with safety advice and techniques for the following emergency situations:
Emergency landing
Aircraft Evacuation
Ditching (landing on water)
Decompression
* Practical door and overwing exit operation on a Boeing 737.
* Break for tea, coffee and biscuits.
* Emergency evacuation slide descents from an Airbus A320.
* Smoke filled cabin training in our Fire Training cabin simulator, with information relevant to aircraft and hotel environments.

Cost is �130 per person, excluding VAT.


Both the flight sims and safety awareness can also be run as a corporate event with catering, etc.
http://www.ebaft.com/corpent/corpent.htm

With all due respect...but you are 100% wrong.

I was employed as a pilot at a large regional airline in the US on 9/11. At the time I was a citizen of a European country that is part of NATO and pro-US, working in the US under a green card (so not from the "Axis of Evil"). After 9/11 I had to sign a release form EVERY time I went in for recurrent training. The release allowed my airline to get permission from the State Department to do the required training. Later when I became a US citizen the release form was not required because we had all gone through a 10-year FBI background check.

Having limited knowledge of the excellent flight training program and recurrent training for CO pilot's, I believe the experience with the CO Sim Training folks would have people leaving their sim ride with a great appreciation for CO and their flight training program, certainly no Six Flags.^

I routinely use flight simulators as part of my work. I have used simulators around the world, depending on availability - but it is "trade" work. If you want to come to the UK, then I can recommend the excellent services of Virtual Aviation - www.virtualaviation.co.uk for their simulator experiences. They have a range of different aircraft types and UK locations. They have a shared experience package available for friends. For US citizens, about a week's notice for passport/security checks would be appreciated. That would make an interesting mileage run weekend.

I cannot comment on the security aspects of public use of flight simulators. However, there are many other ways of achieving what the restrictions seek to eliminate.

Happy landings
Spottie

This is correct. At Alteon, they had to do a security check before the appointment would hold. For the BA flights, they mention 24 hours, but that may be for UK or EU citizens, with longer times needed for us, or US.

I love it Practice hauling a$$ out through the overwing exit, then have a break for tea and biscuits, then practice jumping from the plane down the evac slide. How very British

I can picture people going down the slide, china tea cup in hand, pinky finger extended.