trm2

Well, now I know I am only a silver, no picture of Chavon.

belynch

Mine was hand delivered by Chavon!

senatorgirth

This correct. And the answer is not to move to another FF program -- it's to ditch my FF earning credit card altogether. I have had a Chase CO card for many years. During this time I have passed up many other cards offering cash back rebates in order to earn FF miles on CO knowing that I can always use them for a ticket when I want to.

But now I don't know that because CO has made a profound change in the FF calculus. However, I do know that I can get a cash back rebate with umpteen cards out there.

So I don't anticipate that I'll keep my Chase card after the annual fee comes due because CO FF miles have no known value to me anymore. Because of this awful, awful change I have no assurance that I can use my miles when I want or need them. I can only use them when CO says so. That's a deal breaker for me, and its is very upsetting since I've spent many years accumulating these miles for the very purpose of using them when I want, but CO is pulling the rug out from underneath me.

I have a number of four letter words that I would like to write about CO right now but I will refrain lest I lose my posting privileges.

pbarnette

This might be the best statement in this thread, and I fear it has been lost. I understand the impetus for these changes, but I do wonder if some of them are short-sighted. I don't worry about FFers taking their business elsewhere. Frankly, most are either restricted by geography or corporate contract or will be replaced by an equally angry DL/US/UA/AA/NW flyer.

But, the sale of miles has become the lifeblood of the industry. It isn't just the forward sales that are providing cash now, it is the fact that it is the only consistently profitable part of the business. CO doesn't exactly share the nitty gritty of OP's financials, but look at the numbers for AC's program or some of the Wall Street commentary. I would have to say that there is at least a 50/50 chance that virtually every single profit CO has posted this decade was comprised almost entirely of profits from OnePass.

I'm not sure it will be a winning long-term strategy to privilege the FFers over the credit card holders.

Carolinian

As a likely soon-to-be NW refugee, fleeing the DL takeover, this is welcome news. Although DL will hijack my WP miles as part of the takeover, I intend to avoid flying them in the future. This puts CO at the top of my choices for my new airline. I wonder when they will start allowing NW refugees to comp status?

Totoro

This policy will be fine so long as the other FF programs are equally or more miserable than OP. Some CC users prefer to play the airline mileage game rather than enjoy cash rebates.

scophreak

Comments apply to the bolded statement above (emphasis added). I would argue that your analogy is not an accurate reflection of the situation. In your argument, these seats can still be purchased, albeit at a higher cost. With the new OP changes, the seats may not available at ANY price. See the difference now? As others have said, CO has simply conjured currency out of thin air and traded said currency for cash. Many folks are now having the rug pulled out from underneath them AFTER they bought into the program (whether through flights, credit cards, partners, etc). Though CO is within it's rights to make the change, it seems to fly in the face of their biggest moneymaker: sales of miles to partners.

Correction: CO loses 2 seats they MIGHT have sold for >2x that. Isn't there some old saying about having a bird in hand? What's more, when said big shot finds that he cannot spend his 500,000 AX miles when he wants, what is the incentive to keep earning them? Seems to have all the makings of major financial folly to endanger revenue from mileage sales to partners based on the possibility of selling the same seats for higher fares.

senatorgirth

The sale of FF miles is becoming like an unsustainable Ponzi scheme, and if there's one thing we know about Ponzi schemes it's that they ultimately collapse because they are unsustainable in the long run.

FF miles are sold predicated on the assumption that people want them. But if you make it impossible for consumers to know that they can use them -- and make no mistake about it, that what this latest change does: it doesn't make it more difficult to use miles, it makes use of the miles based entirely upon the whims of whether CO wants to let you use them -- their value is greatly diminished. This will inevitably dampen demand for FF miles and the Ponzi scheme will likely face a greater chance of collapsing.

This terrible policy move by CO marks a major sea change in the entire calculus of FF mileage accrual.

psalflyer

Perhaps we should be looking at this in a greater context. The mainline carriers (including CO) are loosing money hand over fist. This is clearly unsustainable. We should all be in favor of changes to the current business model that result in a return to profitability. Our points are worth zip if there is no airlines to redeem them on! With the recent capacity reductions (unwelcome as they are from a convenience stand point), fares will rise. Rising revenues are key to a return to airline profitability as expenses cannot be cut further than they already have and a key expense, fuel, is market based and therefore mostly not controllable. As fares rise though, the trade off bewteen buying a ticket or using miles may become more favorable to using miles (even at Easypass levels). Since the airlines need cash now, this clearly defeats the purpose. The cash raised from selling the miles has already been spent. This change really seems intended to ensure that more seats in the future are sold rather than redeemed. When viewed from the need to raise current cash revenue, the change does make sense. CO has tried to lessen the burden on their most loyal customers because these folks are already contributing to cash revenue courtesy of BIS EQM.

In this context, this change is not unwarranted and perhaps laudible since I, for one, would like to see CO survive and thrive.

What this change really should remind us is that miles are a wasting asset. They do not accrete in value over time. In fact, it is just the opposite: they clearly have devalued over time. The upshot, we should use them as quickly as possible and avoid accumulation. I practice what I preach. I am a million miler, have been a platinum for each of the last 10 years and have enough EQM for platinum 2008 already. Yet, my current miles balance is >15K. And yes, most have been used to buy standard pass rewards for myself, my hubby or my family for travel domestically, Europe and Asia.

Use 'em or loose 'em folks!

rbrenton88

That's the rub. Fine for Easypass double mileage costs, but standard rewards continue to fade. I think people easily forget the easypass erosion.

Totoro

If I recall correctly, at one point EasyPass did not exist, and standard rewards were the only available rewards. The airlines (and not just CO) did not (and do not) allocate standard reward seats on every flight to a given destination.

With this OP policy change, we've returned to the previous system of limited award availability, although now with EP limits as well. Those people who bought into the program (as you refer to them) will simply see restrictions revert to the old system.

ronin

Actually, even before that FF awards could be used where ever an open seat was available, in whatever class. There was actually a time when FF programs worked exactly as promised, and were implemented as a means to reward customers, not as a framework to define intricate contrivances to make miles not only difficult to use, but as a means to eke out yet additional revenue. In short, FF programs were rewards, not punishments. Ha ha, and we accepted the turnabout, year by year, change by change.

Totoro

Gotcha! I finally have evidence to show that I'm not THAT old ^

I assumed that WN was the only airline that allowed reward travel on any seat that wasn't already occupied. Of course, even that has gone away now. I didn't know FF plans used to be so simple!

dornec

Corva assumes that folks without status don't fly enough. Well I've been a plat for 5 years, and have about 750K miles left in my account, Beginning next March I'll most likely lose all status unless i grab a few more trips to squeak into Silver......my issue is that without status my miles become almost useless.....case in point, i booked 8 seats for next May Cle/CDG/FCO using standard reward 400K] for my family. when I tried to plug in a single ticket for one of my kids using their miles with no status.....nothing available. Why is my 5 years of Plat and Elite membership since mid-90's be less worthy than someone who managed to just become silver in 200?

It makes ya realize it's not what have you done for me...its what are going to do for me with CO..... it is awful to think that because of a change in jobs, i lose all loyalty from CO the second I don't keep feeding them...... Overall, I've been very pleased with CO and the service I've gotten, but now I realize it was all about my ongoing business, and nothing to do with rewarding me for past loyalty and business....one thing that could help folks in my situation is perhaps if they extended reward privileges [for seats only....skip everything else] for a couple of years after loss of status, it would allow customers to actually use the miles they worked so hard to earn. I'm sick to think that I may not be able to easily use the miles unless its to buffalo in February......