Continental Pre/Post Merger Speculation Discussion Thread
Mar 15, 2006, 10:37 am
#61
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Originally Posted by Vulcan
I seem to remember Larry being pretty adamant at the DO that CO wanted to go it alone and simply "grow" the airline.
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 12:42 pm
#62
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Originally Posted by fly747first
Actually, if anything Continental will fold before United, for the latter airline is looking pretty good right now.
Mar 15, 2006, 1:47 pm
#63
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Originally Posted by vincom
Indeed, do what you're good at and grow that way...
It is difficult to grow when you are losing money. CO is in an asset reallocation effort now. Yes - 10 new 787's and 2 new 777's on order, but it is a very slow growth. The dynamics may be such that a small airline can not go it alone - it will take a few very powerful airlines.
Mar 15, 2006, 2:00 pm
#64
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Originally Posted by cova
It is difficult to grow when you are losing money. CO is in an asset reallocation effort now. Yes - 10 new 787's and 2 new 777's on order, but it is a very slow growth. The dynamics may be such that a small airline can not go it alone - it will take a few very powerful airlines.
Indeed they are lossing money, who knows what fare increases the future may hold though...
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 2:11 pm
#65
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Originally Posted by vincom
My dad has a OnePass card thats has Continental and Eastern on the back of it... Nice little blast from the past...
-Vincent
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 2:35 pm
#66
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Originally Posted by vincom
Indeed, do what you're good at and grow that way...
-Vincent
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 4:32 pm
#67
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Originally Posted by vincom
I wonder - do you all really think the PAINS of merging senority lists and fleets (as there are majors differences between United and Continental's fleets - lots of airbus floating around UA) is worth the "benefit" of the combined entity?
AA/TWA wasnt so bad, but TWA was much smaller and it was a flat out purchase. CO/EA - there is still some bitter blood still to this day. PA/NA - it helped add to thier demise. PA2/Carnival - eventually help to lead to thier demise. (and they were equals so to speak)
Seems to me unless its a larger airline buying a much smaller one it doesn't work out too well. Airline mergers in general always seem like a bad idea.
-Vincent
AA/TWA wasnt so bad, but TWA was much smaller and it was a flat out purchase. CO/EA - there is still some bitter blood still to this day. PA/NA - it helped add to thier demise. PA2/Carnival - eventually help to lead to thier demise. (and they were equals so to speak)
Seems to me unless its a larger airline buying a much smaller one it doesn't work out too well. Airline mergers in general always seem like a bad idea.
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 4:48 pm
#68
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Originally Posted by Cheap Elite
In regards to US Airways/America West. I think the US Air name had more domestic recognition and International recognition that America West
Mar 15, 2006, 5:15 pm
#69
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Originally Posted by rapopoda
Very naive generalization.
Umm, I think that is an incredibly sound rationalization.
"The simplest answer tends to be the correct answer".
I coined that by the way...
Last edited by Russell745; Mar 15, 2006 at 5:17 pm Reason: deleted next sentence of quote
Mar 15, 2006, 7:33 pm
#70
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I bet you are not one of those who were truely skrud in order to make UA look "pretty good right now", those people included: equity investors, debt investors, UA retirees, former UA employees, current UA employees (except those whose newly granted stock options sufficiently cover their pains), their suppliers, and oh, tax payers who graciously took over the dumped pensions.
Folding or not is one issue, how much the price tag is another.
Folding or not is one issue, how much the price tag is another.
Originally Posted by fly747first
Actually, if anything Continental will fold before United, for the latter airline is looking pretty good right now.
Mar 15, 2006, 7:38 pm
#71
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Originally Posted by rapopoda
Very naive generalization. The circumstances for organic vs aquired growth must be taken case by case. Not just some pie in the sky hope for growing by doing something well alone
-Vincent
Mar 15, 2006, 7:38 pm
#72
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Do you think Emirates has the so-called world class stature? And how long Emirates has been around?
PAN AM, TWA is much more world class, and where are they?
PAN AM, TWA is much more world class, and where are they?
Originally Posted by cova
CO just does not have the world class stature that UA does. UA and AA are viewed as the world class USA airlines - they have LHR access, are primary in the two biggest alliances - Star and One World.
UA/AA have the stature of 3 class of service which is needed to be in the alliances with other international F class airlines. SkyTeam is third tier.
UA/AA have the stature of 3 class of service which is needed to be in the alliances with other international F class airlines. SkyTeam is third tier.
Mar 15, 2006, 7:40 pm
#73
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Originally Posted by chsb
Also, if you recall TWA employees didn't have much of a choice. The airline was probably doomed if someone didn't buy them. Unfortunately most of the former TWA employees are gone anyway. AA looked at it as a strategic move thinking they could use STL to relieve congestion at DFW and ORD and also get more Mad Dogs and 757s for cheap. We see what the result of that was.
-Vincent
Mar 16, 2006, 6:16 am
#74
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Originally Posted by mywifeisincoach
Insignificant to the bigger picture
It would take AT LEAST $2 BILLION to perform a full integration of United's and Continental's operations (recall that AA spent roughly $1.5B to integrate much smaller TWA, and those carriers had much more operational commonality than UA/CO), even with a stock swap where no money changed hands. And that cash gets pi$$ed away whether the new company flourishes, dies, or (most likely) ultimately heads to bankruptcy court for a court-supervised fixing of the merger mess.
Mar 16, 2006, 6:24 am
#75
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Originally Posted by vincom
It was implied in my comment that I was refering to self motivated and orgnaic growth...
-Vincent
-Vincent