Open Skies to Oz - Will CO bite?
Feb 16, 2008, 4:32 am
#1
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Open Skies to Oz - Will CO bite?
An open skies treaty was signed yesterday, allowing unlimited flights between the two countries. I guess now the grumblings from the last DO have a chance to come true.
Sure, CO needs the planes to make it happen which are 2-3 years away, but at least the regulators aren't going to get in the way once the planes show up.
Sure, CO needs the planes to make it happen which are 2-3 years away, but at least the regulators aren't going to get in the way once the planes show up.
Feb 16, 2008, 4:48 am
#2
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Getting routed
Does this depend somewhat on the future of the UA/CO merger talks? Since UA already fly between the US and Australia, why would CO join in? As well, there's still a residual element of bad feeling in Australia - CO went bankrupt in the early nineties and they had a strong FF following at the time. Many people lost a lot of points, and they won't be supporting a return of CO. There's an element of anti-Star Alliance there too; when the domestic carrier Ansett, a *A partner, went bankrupt a few years ago there were many who lost huge numbers of points and who have vowed never to fly a *A carrier
Feb 16, 2008, 5:01 am
#3
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CO already has rights to fly to Australia. CO used to fly about 5-6 flights a day to Australia from HNL. CO does not have the aircraft nor do they consider it a profitable route - too many vacationers and FF reward redemptions. CO as indicated that it takes a 744 class aircraft to complete in the US - Australia market and CO isn't buying any large aircraft of that size.
CO used to have a major hub at HNL and was the major US carrier to Australia. I agree bad memories - I do not see CO returning with any large presence, if at all.
CO used to have a major hub at HNL and was the major US carrier to Australia. I agree bad memories - I do not see CO returning with any large presence, if at all.
Feb 16, 2008, 5:03 am
#4
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I would think the planes are further than 2-3 years away, as the initial 787s seem already committed to supporting announced services. My guess is that we will see Oz when (and if) CO merges with UA. Otherwise, I think it will be pretty low on the list, behind much of Asia.
Feb 16, 2008, 5:26 am
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Wouldn't it be possible with a smaller Aircraft out of GUM?
Feb 16, 2008, 5:45 am
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Feb 16, 2008, 5:45 am
#7
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CO already flies GUM-CNS 2x weekly on a 738. And they do have the HNL authorities, but very few people want to stop in HNL on the way to Oz anymore.
At the same time, either Larry or Jeff mentioned it once or twice at the DO III back in September, so who knows.
At the same time, either Larry or Jeff mentioned it once or twice at the DO III back in September, so who knows.
Feb 16, 2008, 7:46 am
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Right now they don't have the aircraft. When the 787-9 comes along I think there is a decent shot at seeing this. Until then the chance is pretty close to zero. Of course, a lot of other things can happen in that timeframe.
Feb 16, 2008, 8:35 am
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Even a 787 might be load-restricted...I recall another thread where this came up, and I got interested to the point that I looked up 787 range (from Wikipedia) and the Great Circle IAH-SYD. The posted difference is 96 miles from the max of the 787. Granted, the mapper isn't official and range is subjective unless you're the one on the aircraft, but there it is to be seen.
Feb 16, 2008, 9:13 am
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Even a 787 might be load-restricted...I recall another thread where this came up, and I got interested to the point that I looked up 787 range (from Wikipedia) and the Great Circle IAH-SYD. The posted difference is 96 miles from the max of the 787. Granted, the mapper isn't official and range is subjective unless you're the one on the aircraft, but there it is to be seen.
I guess we do need CO to buy AS and then use the SEA hub for that flight, as it is well within range and also avoids the dead zone
Feb 16, 2008, 9:18 am
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Unfortunately, I don't see any additional service happening on CO...ever.
Feb 16, 2008, 10:09 am
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Short term, only if they painted the United 744s in the CO livery. Long Term, maybe 787-9 service but that is a long way off.
Feb 16, 2008, 3:15 pm
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There was a blurb in today's Houston Chronicle about the new agreement and it said that CO said that they have no immediate plans to go to Australia.
Feb 16, 2008, 3:20 pm
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That option also cuts through a dead zone in ETOPS 180, which is what all the other CO ETOPS planes are rated at. That means CO would either need a higher ETOPS rating, which often comes at the expense of range IIRC, or they would have to deviate from the GC route, making that 96 miles indespensible.
Feb 16, 2008, 4:03 pm
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