Why close the waitlist?
Jan 12, 2006 | 8:57 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,206
Why close the waitlist?
Why does CO "close" the waitlist for international travel weeks before departure?
I purchased a full Y on CO99's EWR-HKG on 2/17 with hopes of using mileage to upgrade (I'm a Platinum with more miles than I know what to do with.) I haven't used any online tools to check out the real availability #'s, but the seatmaps show about 10-15 open seats up front and more than 1/3 of the back empty. I know seatmaps aren't an accurate depiction of sales, but I'd figure directionally they show decent availability there.
In any event, I called for my upgrade only to get "sorry, there are no upgrade seats available and the waitlist is closed." Other than those lining up to buy regular J seats there, there shouldn't be anyone else (short of non-revers
) who's able to trump my status + fare paid. As such, shouldn't CO keep the waitlist open and bump those on the list with lower fares and/or status to the bottom of the list?
NW does have availability for roughly the same fare (althought a pitstop in NRT nets me more EQM's
) so does CO really want to lose my Y fare to them? It's one thing to hold back seats for sale for real J, it's another to annoy a top tiered elite paying a decent fare simply by adding an additional layer of complexity by waiting for a waitlist to open for real upgrades.
I purchased a full Y on CO99's EWR-HKG on 2/17 with hopes of using mileage to upgrade (I'm a Platinum with more miles than I know what to do with.) I haven't used any online tools to check out the real availability #'s, but the seatmaps show about 10-15 open seats up front and more than 1/3 of the back empty. I know seatmaps aren't an accurate depiction of sales, but I'd figure directionally they show decent availability there.
In any event, I called for my upgrade only to get "sorry, there are no upgrade seats available and the waitlist is closed." Other than those lining up to buy regular J seats there, there shouldn't be anyone else (short of non-revers
) who's able to trump my status + fare paid. As such, shouldn't CO keep the waitlist open and bump those on the list with lower fares and/or status to the bottom of the list?NW does have availability for roughly the same fare (althought a pitstop in NRT nets me more EQM's
) so does CO really want to lose my Y fare to them? It's one thing to hold back seats for sale for real J, it's another to annoy a top tiered elite paying a decent fare simply by adding an additional layer of complexity by waiting for a waitlist to open for real upgrades.
Jan 12, 2006 | 9:57 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
I Feel Your Pain
I'm in the same boat for 2/10 on 99. Luckily, I was able to make it onto the waitlist but as of yet it has not cleared and as of circa 3 weeks ago nobody had been upgraded for 99 (BF concierge and two CSR told me this after a little ...hell make it a lot of pressure from yours truly) but I did manage to clear the waitlist for the return (thank you CO ^ ) As you know, the BF list is organized by status but not fare class (although I am not sure about the latter) so perhaps CO just decided at the most they'd only potentially release X seats and since there are already X Plats (as you'd trump any golds or silvers) they just said no.
Also, as you booked full Y and as you have more miles than you know what do with I'd suggest donating said mileage to the J.Edward Educational Fund (it's getting about time to replace the Civic and J.Edward clearly deserves a 5 series ) But seriously, if you do have a surplus of mileage, why not refund your ticket and EZPass BF to HKG? It'll hurt but it will get you the big seat (and ironically, CO looses out on your lucrative Y fare.)
Hope it helps
Edited to add flight info
Hmmm, it looks like there's still space on the EWR-PEK flight (on 2/10 it's R9 
) so perahpes you may want to call and get yourself rerouted (assuming you can find a way to get from PEK to HKG).
^ ) As you know, the BF list is organized by status but not fare class (although I am not sure about the latter) so perhaps CO just decided at the most they'd only potentially release X seats and since there are already X Plats (as you'd trump any golds or silvers) they just said no.Also, as you booked full Y and as you have more miles than you know what do with I'd suggest donating said mileage to the J.Edward Educational Fund (it's getting about time to replace the Civic and J.Edward clearly deserves a 5 series
) But seriously, if you do have a surplus of mileage, why not refund your ticket and EZPass BF to HKG? It'll hurt but it will get you the big seat (and ironically, CO looses out on your lucrative Y fare.)Hope it helps
Edited to add flight info
Code:
EWR Newark Int'l NJ US [KEWR] HKG Hong Kong Int'l HK [VHHH] FRI 17 Feb 2006 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- -- -------------------------------------------------------- CO 99 EWR 15:00 HKG 20:00 +1 777 0 J9 D9 Z0 R0 Y9 H9 K9 N9 B9 O9 V9 U9 Q9 I9 S9 W9 T9 X9 L9 CO 89 EWR 12:15 PEK 15:00 +1 777 0 J9 D9 Z1 R1 Y9 H9 K9 N9 B9 O9 V9 U9 Q9 I9 S9 W9 T9 X9 L9
) so perahpes you may want to call and get yourself rerouted (assuming you can find a way to get from PEK to HKG).
Last edited by J.Edward; Jan 12, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Jan 12, 2006 | 10:36 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 163
I'd imagine if they only have, say, 5 seats left in BF total, and the waiting list for upgrade is already lined up with, say, half a dozen Plats, then it might not make much sense for them to put you on the list knowing that your chances are next to nil? Something like that?
This thread says a lot about any chances I might have as a non elite hoping to get any upgrade on CO. I guess my best bet is to just use miles and get a ticket that way.
This thread says a lot about any chances I might have as a non elite hoping to get any upgrade on CO. I guess my best bet is to just use miles and get a ticket that way.
Jan 12, 2006 | 10:53 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: UA 1K / IC RA/ Hilton Plat / Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 379
well since the back is 1/3 empty, an op-up wont be happening, so you should call before the 72 hour mark, request to be placed on the list once again, and if they refuse, return your Y ticket on the spot...if that doesnt get them to sing a different tune nothing will...then you can immediately go online and book a K or an H ticket and save thousands
Jan 14, 2006 | 8:32 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,206
Fare
Originally Posted by diana
Weatherboy, may I ask what you paid for your Y ticket?
You might want to check out this website. If I was told the waitlist was closed, I would look elsewhere.
You might want to check out this website. If I was told the waitlist was closed, I would look elsewhere.
I looked into Peking but no CO partner flies from PEK to HKG.
If I can't get upgraded on a HKG flight, I'll probably just re-book on another carrier.
Jan 20, 2006 | 12:49 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,206
Kudos to CO
Kudos to the CO folks who scan these messages... and a big thanks to the CO'er who fixed my upgrade situation on this trip ^
^
Jan 20, 2006 | 5:23 pm
#8
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Central Florida
Programs: Bonvoy-Gold, HH-Gold, UA-Gold, *A-Gold, Hyatt-Discoverist
Posts: 2,046
Originally Posted by Weatherboy
Kudos to the CO folks who scan these messages... and a big thanks to the CO'er who fixed my upgrade situation on this trip ^
^- HF
Jan 21, 2006 | 11:38 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MileagePlus Premier Gold
Posts: 11,522
I agree it is a horrible policy. Why?
1) You're penalizing those who book later. These are typically folks who pay more for their seat in Y than others who book earlier, both as a function of advance purchase requirements for many fares and becuase inventory gets more and more scarce as you get closer to the departure date.
2) You're penalizing those who are your bread and butter - business travellers - who typically book closer to departure date rather than earlier. You piss these people off, and you're screwed for the future, if you do it often enough.
3) Waitlists change dynamically. Even if there were enough status flyers on the list, some do end up changing their travel plans, and thus open up waitlists. You end up telling the full fare Y traveller that the waitlist is closed one day, and the next day (or next minute) #2 Plat on the waitlist drops off because he changes his plans and decides to travel another day.
4) Passenger loads change dynamically. Similar to Point #3, you've got people cancelled confirmed reservations in both BF and Y class, which dramatically impact how big a waitlist should or should not be.
All these things add up to a piss-poor business decision.
1) You're penalizing those who book later. These are typically folks who pay more for their seat in Y than others who book earlier, both as a function of advance purchase requirements for many fares and becuase inventory gets more and more scarce as you get closer to the departure date.
2) You're penalizing those who are your bread and butter - business travellers - who typically book closer to departure date rather than earlier. You piss these people off, and you're screwed for the future, if you do it often enough.
3) Waitlists change dynamically. Even if there were enough status flyers on the list, some do end up changing their travel plans, and thus open up waitlists. You end up telling the full fare Y traveller that the waitlist is closed one day, and the next day (or next minute) #2 Plat on the waitlist drops off because he changes his plans and decides to travel another day.
4) Passenger loads change dynamically. Similar to Point #3, you've got people cancelled confirmed reservations in both BF and Y class, which dramatically impact how big a waitlist should or should not be.
All these things add up to a piss-poor business decision.