The "row 5 test" and ERJs
Sep 3, 2003 | 9:37 am
#1
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The "row 5 test" and ERJs
Anyone else remember how Gordon Bethune used to brag about his "row 5 test," where whenever CO was considering a change in service, the ultimate determinant of whether to make that change would be whether typical passengers (i.e. the passenger in row 5) would like the change and be more likely to fly CO because of it?
I wonder if CO simply forgot to do a row 5 test on the ERJs. Hmmm, I wonder how most "row 5" passengers would respond if asked, "How would you feel if we converted half the mainline fleet to smaller, more cramped regional jets with less legroom, less headroom, minimal carry-on space, fewer FAs, fewer lavatories, less food, and zero chance of upgrading to FC?"
I wonder if CO simply forgot to do a row 5 test on the ERJs. Hmmm, I wonder how most "row 5" passengers would respond if asked, "How would you feel if we converted half the mainline fleet to smaller, more cramped regional jets with less legroom, less headroom, minimal carry-on space, fewer FAs, fewer lavatories, less food, and zero chance of upgrading to FC?"
Sep 3, 2003 | 9:47 am
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The flip side to your hypothetical Row 5 test would be: "How would you like it if we completely dropped all CO flights to your city?"
I'm not a regional jet fan to be sure, but at the same time, I think many people are overzealous in their derision of them. If you find a seat on the "A" side, you get both a window and an aisle. Snag the seat in row 1, and you get some leg room as well. Yeah, there's no first class, but how often does that matter to the hypothetical people in Row 5 anyway?
I'm not a regional jet fan to be sure, but at the same time, I think many people are overzealous in their derision of them. If you find a seat on the "A" side, you get both a window and an aisle. Snag the seat in row 1, and you get some leg room as well. Yeah, there's no first class, but how often does that matter to the hypothetical people in Row 5 anyway?
Sep 3, 2003 | 10:14 am
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The airlines are bankrupt and doing what they can to survive these times. When things are going good, the airlines traditionally respond by adding more to customer service. If flyers can't understand and appreciate what the airlines are trying to doing now, I don't have sympathy for them. In economic terms, there are few things more elastic that the relationship of fares to seats sold, making decisions on costs extra-critical. It's no different than if a father had his pay cut 25% due to economic problems at this employer. I think he'd make the decision to find ways to cut spending, and hope that his family understands it is temporary.
Sep 3, 2003 | 10:43 am
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i thought it was "the guy in 9D". i do remember the line from a talk i heard him give, even if i've got the seat wrong. but row 5 is the bulkhead--he doesn't want to talk to those people--that's usually us... :-)
i'd be pretty unhappy in 9D on an ERJ, tho... :-)
i'd be pretty unhappy in 9D on an ERJ, tho... :-)
Sep 3, 2003 | 7:16 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Seat1A:
i'd be pretty unhappy in 9D on an ERJ, tho... </font>
i'd be pretty unhappy in 9D on an ERJ, tho... </font>
Sep 3, 2003 | 7:26 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Seat1A:
i thought it was "the guy in 9D". i do remember the line from a talk i heard him give, even if i've got the seat wrong. but row 5 is the bulkhead--he doesn't want to talk to those people--that's usually us... :-)</font>
i thought it was "the guy in 9D". i do remember the line from a talk i heard him give, even if i've got the seat wrong. but row 5 is the bulkhead--he doesn't want to talk to those people--that's usually us... :-)</font>
Sep 3, 2003 | 9:17 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sobay_terp:
Why? That's an exit row on the 135. But then it's not 1A...</font>
Why? That's an exit row on the 135. But then it's not 1A...</font>
Sep 4, 2003 | 8:46 am
#8
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I think He was referring to row 5 on a trans-oceanic 777 - which is, of course, a BF seat occupied by an employee.
Sep 4, 2003 | 8:49 am
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Row 5 is the 1st row of coach in the 737-300, 500 and 700.
Sep 4, 2003 | 11:47 am
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So go ahead and drop IAD I'll go elsewhere, as it is this is pushing me to the brink; its pathetic that Washington Dulles has either 3 out of 4 flights a day (or is it 4 of 5) on an RJ to IAH. I am not doing 1190 miles (3 hours) on a stinkin RJ. If they make it 4 for 4 on RJ's, I'll be calling the friendly skies or MRTC, either option is better than this crap to Houston that CO is shoving up our backsides
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cAAl:
The flip side to your hypothetical Row 5 test would be: "How would you like it if we completely dropped all CO flights to your city?"
I'm not a regional jet fan to be sure, but at the same time, I think many people are overzealous in their derision of them. If you find a seat on the "A" side, you get both a window and an aisle. Snag the seat in row 1, and you get some leg room as well. Yeah, there's no first class, but how often does that matter to the hypothetical people in Row 5 anyway?</font>
The flip side to your hypothetical Row 5 test would be: "How would you like it if we completely dropped all CO flights to your city?"
I'm not a regional jet fan to be sure, but at the same time, I think many people are overzealous in their derision of them. If you find a seat on the "A" side, you get both a window and an aisle. Snag the seat in row 1, and you get some leg room as well. Yeah, there's no first class, but how often does that matter to the hypothetical people in Row 5 anyway?</font>
Sep 4, 2003 | 12:44 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TrojanHorse:
So go ahead and drop IAD I'll go elsewhere, as it is this is pushing me to the brink; its pathetic that Washington Dulles has either 3 out of 4 flights a day (or is it 4 of 5) on an RJ to IAH. I am not doing 1190 miles (3 hours) on a stinkin RJ. If they make it 4 for 4 on RJ's, I'll be calling the friendly skies or MRTC, either option is better than this crap to Houston that CO is shoving up our backsides
</font>
So go ahead and drop IAD I'll go elsewhere, as it is this is pushing me to the brink; its pathetic that Washington Dulles has either 3 out of 4 flights a day (or is it 4 of 5) on an RJ to IAH. I am not doing 1190 miles (3 hours) on a stinkin RJ. If they make it 4 for 4 on RJ's, I'll be calling the friendly skies or MRTC, either option is better than this crap to Houston that CO is shoving up our backsides
</font>
How is a connection (with the actual and potential inconveniences & hassles) better than a nonstop? Sure, a connection might be OK on a leisure trip, but for time-sensitive business travel, a nonstop flight on ANYTHING beats a connection anyday.
Besides, how can CO be blamed for matching capacity to demand? The failures of AA and UA are in part due to their inability to size their equipment to what the marketplace can economically bear.
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Sep 4, 2003 | 1:23 pm
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I 'usually' travel on my own time for business and I'd rather do IAD-IAH-LAX in F class (buying any class ticket, without burning any miles, upgrade points etc) than Y on AA or UA; however if half of that trip (IAD-IAH) turns out to be on an RJ then I'd rather have MRTC all the way than a cracker jacks box of an airplane for 3 hours.
Call it capacity to demand or whatever you want, it comes down to the fact that I am NOT going to fly an ERJ for 1190 miles (3 hours); Its CO that is pushing biz travel away strictly due to RJ use on long hauls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what CO is trying to get, the biz traveler??????
Call it capacity to demand or whatever you want, it comes down to the fact that I am NOT going to fly an ERJ for 1190 miles (3 hours); Its CO that is pushing biz travel away strictly due to RJ use on long hauls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what CO is trying to get, the biz traveler??????
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by avek00:
How is a connection (with the actual and potential inconveniences & hassles) better than a nonstop? Sure, a connection might be OK on a leisure trip, but for time-sensitive business travel, a nonstop flight on ANYTHING beats a connection anyday.
Besides, how can CO be blamed for matching capacity to demand? The failures of AA and UA are in part due to their inability to size their equipment to what the marketplace can economically bear.
</font>
How is a connection (with the actual and potential inconveniences & hassles) better than a nonstop? Sure, a connection might be OK on a leisure trip, but for time-sensitive business travel, a nonstop flight on ANYTHING beats a connection anyday.
Besides, how can CO be blamed for matching capacity to demand? The failures of AA and UA are in part due to their inability to size their equipment to what the marketplace can economically bear.
</font>
Sep 4, 2003 | 1:25 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by avek00:
but for time-sensitive business travel, a nonstop flight on ANYTHING beats a connection anyday.</font>
but for time-sensitive business travel, a nonstop flight on ANYTHING beats a connection anyday.</font>
Sep 4, 2003 | 10:29 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TrojanHorse:
...then I'd rather have MRTC all the way than a cracker jacks box of an airplane for 3 hours.</font>
...then I'd rather have MRTC all the way than a cracker jacks box of an airplane for 3 hours.</font>
Lest according to my most recent BestFares Magazine.
- HobokenFlyer
Sep 6, 2003 | 8:11 am
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I don't know this for a fact but from what I gather, MRTC was only pulled from 25% of their routes which are mostly leisure routes, NOT the transcons like IAD-LAX which would be the route I take most
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HobokenFlyer:
MRTC is dead. AA has put rows back into 757's and A300's.
Lest according to my most recent BestFares Magazine.
- HobokenFlyer</font>
MRTC is dead. AA has put rows back into 757's and A300's.
Lest according to my most recent BestFares Magazine.
- HobokenFlyer</font>