Venk,

Thanks for the report. Good show!

I will comment that I think you may have been somewhat skewed on CO after flying SQ's F.

I recall the first time I flew SQ F how impressed I was with the attention to detail, even more so than many other global carriers' F products.

Today, I don't notice it as much because I have upwardly adjusted my expectations for fine service--so much so that on my last flight the Sky Suite seemed a bit small. I had to take a walk through the economy cabin to reorient myself to reality and how much space I really had for being on a flying ship!

My point is that it is can be expected that you would be disappointed in CO and notice the inattention to detail and attentiveness, given that it was CO J following SQ F.

First in Class

venk, thanks for your astute commentary!

In recent months I have taken transatlantic flights on KLM, both in WBC and in Y, and I was, in both cases, struck by the commitment on the part of the F/As to do what was necessary to help each individual. Granted that while in KL Y there was definitely a sense of routine to the service, it was clear that the crew was well-trained to avoid things such as eye-rolling and speaking in b*tchy tones of voice. In WBC, the crew was extremely respectful and patient, despite the fact that I had clearly brought on more than my alloted share of carry-on luggage and was struggling to find places to put it all. When I had lost the eyeshades that came in my ammenities kit and had to ask for another pair, the F/A, although clearly not expecting the request, was happy to go off and find an extra pair while being careful not to give off any attitude.

I couldn't agree more that when the F/As in a premium class give the sense that they are fatigued or annoyed by any type of unexpected request that this makes the "premium" experience quite a bit less enjoyable.

I would be interested to hear, however, whether people think that a general distinction can be made between the behavior of F/As on US airlines compared to that on European and Asian airlines. Obviously a lot depends on the individual crew, and so forth, but are there any US carriers where the premium class crews' behavior reflects my experience on KLM? Likewise, are there there any European or Asian carriers where the crews are as routine oriented as the venk's BF crew was?

[This message has been edited by aparsuites (edited 12-03-2002).]

This was a very interesting review---thank you for taking the time to write this, venk.

Your discussion of the FAs was right on target. I've flown CO and SQ to Asia. The biggest difference between these two airlines' FAs from my experience was the attitude. The SQ FAs were proactive, passenger oriented, and never gave the slightest appearance of a negative attitude. Maybe it is because of the way SQ trained and or hired them but they made it clear that they took pleasure in serving the first-class passenger. I never heard "You'll have to wait" "I'm busy right now can't you see that" --- on SQ.

Maybe it's a mindset or a completely different way of looking at their careers but it seems that CO's FAs could learn a great deal from the professionalism and high levels of personal service for which SQ FAs are known. I expect nothing less when flying first-class overseas.

[This message has been edited by Analise (edited 12-04-2002).]

Northwest World Business Class is much more comfortable and spacious than Continental BusinessFirst. Northwest's service levels are nothing to rave about in the food & beverage area, unfortunately. As much as I like to eat & drink, Northwest is my choice. I especially enjoy the old First Class seats in the 747-200 upper deck and 747-400 nose. I'm looking forward to a Northwest World Business Class flight this Tuesday.

Above all else, Continental's seat pitch needs to be improved.

I took NW WBC DTW-FRA-DTW in September <for Octoberfest>. I found the seats to be much more comfortable than those on CO's 767's and the older BF 777 seats <have not flown the new seats yet>. The food, beverages and IFE are superior in BF; HOWEVER, the F/A attitude both ways was great. I really felt they wanted us on the plane.



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Friends don't let friends fly RJ's
I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.

I can't believe that nobody has commented about the stupid "ugly American" comments. I travel to Asia all the time in Biz class and have tried both Asian and US carriers. I've generally found passengers on all aircraft to be polite and kind.
Just last week I flew TPE-SFO on UA and had two Taiwanese people yacking behind me for the entire flight, extremely loud. This does not lead me to any generalizations about "ugly Chinese" however. To generalize is just stupid...except when talking about elitist farts who view people as "specimins" I hope you are doomed to a life of flying next to 3 month olds who cant keep their formula down during turbulence!!

I can assure you that our bf mixed nuts are just that...mixed nuts. Not just cashews, not just almonds but a plethora of choice. They are boarded bulk in a silver pan and divided up into your individual ramekins. As far as asia flights go, if it is any insight, the flight attendants that fly these flights are very senior. Basically that is all they fly one or two Hong Kongs per month. So I would not say that this group of FA's is a fair representation of Continental FA'S. My seniority is 10 years and I can not touch a Hong Kong flight with a 10 foot pole. So if your service is slow or you feel that the FA's are bitter they probably are. These woman have been flying for 35+ years. I am sorry, that is just how things happen in the airline industry. After 35 years of shelling out chicken or beef in such a turbulent industry, with no prospects of a decent retirement would make anyone bitter. Yes we all have a choice, and fortunately for me by livelihood does not depend on the realtively small checks that I bring home. However for some people it does.So having only cashews, is a very small problem in the grand scheme of things.

i like that word "ramekins." i have never heard it before.


[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 12-04-2002).]

I recently returned from HKG flying flts 99/98 roundtrip.

I find CO's BF service to be "flat". Nothing notable. And yes -- even though I do not eat peanuts --- there was only one kind of nut --- not a plethora / selection.

Some observations --- the FAs are senior ---
and come to find out they do up to 3 round trips in a row --- that is alot of flying --which is sure to make one a little cranky after the 1st trip! The FAs give no more and no less -- but I do find it amazing for how many hours the BF cabin can go without a FA even doing a "walk thru".

The return trip was another Non Rev delight!!
Just prior to closing the door 9 off duty non rev FAs came hustling on with all their shopping bags ---a plethora of shopping bags filled with their recent bargains from the mainline shopping spree.
It appears that the "word" is out that the HKG flight is great for a "shopping spree weekend" --- Of course you can imagine the calm and decorum of the BF cabin when 9 shoppers has stowed their goodies in the overhead and now can sit down and (change seats to be near a friend) and talk about the bargains.
The empty seat next to mine was taken by a non rev who told me the whole story --- and on account of the lack of sleep consumed a plethora of glasses of wine -- to induce a slumber -- only upon landing to realize that the wine did not set well --- and the barf bag was required as well as a run to the lav upon touch down.

This all in the "premium cabin" of BF!!!!!!

Hey Gang,

I have been reading this thread since it first appeared and like my colleague I wanted to aplogize for the other flight attendant's lack of attentiveness and professionalism. I also wanted to "flame" those whose criticism appeared unfounded or overly critical.

Instead I'd like some cultural and economic information that pertains to this topic:
[list=1][*]Does anyone know the statisical breakdown of the number of employees at SQ vs. CO?[*]How many daily flights? How many of those are domestic? [*]What, if any, assistance is given to SQ from their government (Is is SQ deregulated)? [*]How is the f/a compenstated for his/her work? [*]Is there a restriction on their longevity? (i.e. I believe EL AL f/a's are given a 5 year contract and then moved to another job) [*]Culturally speaking, how do citizens in the US compare to those in SQ? [*]Is it a democracy? Are they free to think for themseleves? [*]After they leave the career of F/A, does the government train them for another job?[/list=a]
Now, about co-workers;
[list=1][*]Does anyone work with someone that they wish management would kick to the curb?

Granted, in a union shop that prospect is hindered, but what company is without "sluggos". [*]Is there anyone you work with that when you are entertaining prospects/customers, you wish wasn't present? [*]Does their very presence jeapordizes the business relationship? [*]Does this individual always behave this way? [*]Do you know whether their behavior is tied to a problem at home or work or both?[*]Does it ever appear that no matter how often you complain to the boss, nothing seems to change regarding the individual?[*]Do any of you have careers where their is a "understanding" that you don't report the actions of the other unless it jeapordizes lives? [/list=a]

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I read on another board about how AA offers BOSE Headsets in both F and J. Very impressive. Do you think they have the exclusive on that? Like UA does on Starbucks Coffee?

While this could be a nice sociological survey befitting academic research, as a passenger flying in first-class, it is irrelevant to me. First-class is about service and comfort as the high price which the airlines charge suggests. The backgrounds of the individual FAs and their respective countries are meaningless to me as long as they can perform their functions with the utmost professionalism and courtesy.

Cathay Pacific's FAs are also in the same league as Singapore Air. I meant to include that earlier.

What does this have to do with the price of beans? Do you think that SQ or CX staff is better because they are happier, better adjusted, better taken care of by their government (??), better paid, and not allowed to think for themselves? Did it occur to you that it is because they know they have a job to do, and part of their job is to be efficient, professional, and courteous, and thus take their job description seriously?

It drives me nuts to see this kind of attitude. If I, in my current job, I were to slack off and treat my clients the way CO F/A sometimes treat their (yes) customers and clients, I'd be out of a job in about seven days. Do I like my job? Sure. Do I always like my job? No. Do I eat from the bucket, when eating from the bucket is the thing to do? Yes, and that's they way it goes. Why should I expect any less from other service providers, especially those charging premium prices for ostensibly premium service?

Flame away, boys and girls.

I think you might have stayed in the Pickle Jar to long....Just kidding!

I think these questions have relevance to the topic and I'm just asking for answers. Why is it a problem to try to find out more information?

Sure, they are relevant. I just think that the answers to such questions will not get you any closer as to why the difference in service.

For example, what does the Singaporean government and thinking for oneself have to do with the quality of airline service? If the SG government wants to make sure that only brainwashed people staff their planes (which I doubt, first because I don't think the SG government is that detail-oriented, and second because I don't think the Singaporeans are brainwashed), and as a result the service is excellent, well, maybe CO ought to follow a similar procedure, no?

FCTSTY, I'm glad you brought this up, as it is clearly central to this thread's discussion. Here are the definitions according to the Oxford English Dictionary:

ramekin

a. A small quantity of cheese, with bread-crumbs, eggs, etc., usually baked and served in a special mould. Chiefly pl.

b. A dish in which ramekins or other portions of food are baked and served.

alternate spellings include: ramme(l)kin, ramequin, and ramakin.