Just flew home after many long legs and long days...had intersting conversations with CO FA's and pilots and we, as passengers, elites think we have it bad? Has anyone else spoken with the employees lately? Disgruntled and plain ol pissed is an understatement, it seems they truly got the short straw. Just some of the amazing stories is that some Captains were asked to take a $40k paycut and fly as First Officers, seasoned pilots who were allowed if nothing else to keep their 4-striped uniforms while flying now as a FO. The FA's not only no longer receive money/points towards their uniforms, and worse they must purchase with their own money, the defibelator (spell?) key. Supposedly FA's time clock doesn't start until the "Emergecny Brake" on the plane is shut off which wasn't a big deal to do so while at the gate. Pilots are now told not to shut that brake off until last second that they have to in order to avoid the FA clock starting? There were many more cutbacks and it seems they are all quite vocal about it whether you ask or not...any comments?

I think that we all have a lot of gripes at our own jobs. Nothing is perfect. At least they have a job. The only ones right now that I feel bad for are the ones who were laid off. Also the stories you are told (as the stories we sometimes tell) have the realistic possibility for some "stretching" or "bending" of the truth as well. And at least they still have the employee rides up front of BF/Int'l flights benefit that sure hasn't seemed to disappear.

it really suc*s if they have to buy their own uniforms and don't get paid until the plane pushes back. so, they have to serve FC passengers drinks for free?

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 10-01-2002).]

I have heard a few additional complaints from employees lately:

1. Instead of a $65 bonus for on time just for placing in top 3 OR $100 for top 1, they only will get $100 if they place first. No more $65 bonuses. This may sound like small money, but they person who told me this said it was paid something like 11 of 12 months last year, so its more than it sounds.

2. The Eddie Bauer giveaways have been taken down from 2 to 1 giveaway per year.

I have heard the same thing from FA's about not getting paid until the plane leaves the gate or takes off.

Apart from being a pretty sh_tty policy for employees, I don't understand how CO gets away with it under the wage and hour regulations. As I understand it, if you are an hourly employee (which apparently FA's are), and you are doing *work* of any kind, those hours have to be turned in and you have to be paid. It doesn't even matter if you "agree" to work without compensation. If you work, you get paid, period.

I know of a number of businesses that have been penalized by the US DOL for not paying hourly employees while they were on call, or when the employees went to the work site for ten of fifteen minutes to open the door for a colleague or drop of a shared pager or cell phone.

Does anyone know how CO gets away with this?

jh

You want to hear something REALLY, REALLY BAD? My wife was flying back to PHL from IAH last Friday. THEY FORGOT TO LOAD THE CORKSCREW!!!!!!

Actually, she reports that the FA went to each person and apologized profusely and went in the back to find as many small coach bottles as she could.

Planes generally don't have emergency brakes, otherwise they wouldn't use wheel blocks.

Historically, the flight attendants have been paid block to block and I believe this is the case with all airlines.

This is not the "you're getting paid now" clock. The issue is when the "on duty" clock starts ticking. FAs (and pilots too) are only allowed by FAA regs. to work so many hours in a row w/o a break. The clock has to start ticking at some point. I guess from the above that it's when the brake is released.

Vulcan: Anohter cutback, there is only one corkscrew per plane, of course when they remember to load it. Plus, FA's can't take their own through security. I hope Mondavi goes twist-top like beer, we'll have no further problems.

Pilots and flight attendants are both hourly work groups. We get paid from brake release to door open time (block). All the other time we're on duty we're paid our per diem rates. It sure is awful to be on duty for 14 hours but only get paid for a few hours of that because of delays or weather. It's true in a way that until the brakes are released we're working for free. All the preflight duties we have to perform go unpaid. That's why there is such a strong push for trip and duty rigs.

Nice to see a passenger actually thinking about how these cutbacks are affecting the employees of the airlines!! Most passengers seem to think they're the only ones affected by the post 9/11 economical cutbacks.

As far as the corkscrew... We were flying from DTW-MBS (a 22 minute flight) and a first class passenger got so angry at one of our flight attendants for serving him coach wine (after explaining that a cork screw wasn't boarded by catering and this was the only alternative if he wanted wine) and demanded the captain ensure corkscrews are boarded in the future. HELLO??? If you're that desperate for a drink on a 22 min flight you've got other issues and PLEASE don't take crap like that out on our flight attendants.

if that's how their contract is written and they collectively sign the contract, maybe that's how they get away with it.

All planes have a parking brake (the wheel blocks are back ups). There was an incident a few months ago in Hawaii where an Island Air Dash-8 landed with its parking brake on, blowing out all of its tires.

Hi Y'all

As previously mentioned:
Pilots and Flight Attendants are paid "block -to- block" or from brake release to gate arrival. This is common to ALL airlines.

CO asking the pilots to delay the out time (IE: brake release) isn't cutting back on pay ... it's a reminder to all about how the rules were suppossed to be in the first place (releasing the "parking brake" is how the company defines the "out time", an event required to be reported per the FAA ... don't call yourself "out" if you know you're gonna sit on the gate for 5 more minutes). I see the so called memo to the pilots more as a "don't subject us to FAA fines" more than a "let's screw ta F/A's {and pilots} out of some pay).

It still seems to me that if the pilots and FA's are performing any kind of work on behalf of CO, even if it isn't an FAA defined "duty," then they should be compensated. I know that flight crews receive per diem compensation, but I have always understood that this was for expenses.

I would never tell an hourly employee that I supervised to perform work related functions while "off duty. " What would happen to one of us if we told an hourly employee, "I know the wage and hour says that you are supposed to have a lunch break, but can you please answer the phone/file/build widgets/whatever for one hour while "off-duty" so that you can work twelve hours uninterrupted?" or "I need these packets to be ready by the morning. Be sure to punch out at five, though, even if you stay later. I can't have you exceeding forty hours." Besides feeling like an _sshole, I would be afraid of getting a big fine from the Department of Labor and seeing my picture in the newspaper.

I am equally surprised that CO makes the employees pay for their uniforms. Surely this means that they give the employees some kind of allowance, above and beyond their regular compensation, and not that they employees are buying uniforms with personal funds.

The bottom line is that CO and the other airlines could treat their employees better.

jh

To correct a misconception... our duty times start an hour or so prior to the first flight of a trip and end about 30 min to an hour after the last leg of the trip is completed. So that means we're on duty every momemt we're at the airport, at he hotel and of course airborne. This of course varies airline by airline... at mine we are required to report to the airport (at our base at the start of our trip) no later than 1 hour prior to departure time to update manuals and prepare for the flight. We don't start getting paid our hourly wage until that brake is released. We are legal to release the brake per company policies if doors are closed and we've called for a push. If we then sit, we sit, oh well. I'd love to get paid for those 530am walk arounds when its dark, 15 degrees, 20 mph winds and blowing snow. All the while you're sipping hot airline coffee or going back to sleep.

Alot of airlines have trip and duty rigs which makes things better but it still doesn't fully address the working for free issue. The set up we're pushing for in our new contract is something like... for every 3.75 hours we're on duty we get paid an hour of hourly wage.

So there are some provisions out there for some airlines but not all of them.

As for uniforms go... the company paid for half of my intial uniform and I paid the rest with $20 deductions from every paycheck for 9 months. Geez, you guys must think that everything is perfect as an airline employee!! What other misconceptions do you all have? =) All these things you guys are so surprised about are really normal among most airlines... and if you think CO and the rest of the majors have it bad? Talk to a regional airline employee (like me) and we'll share a few of the huge gaps between major airlines and us when it comes to everything from pay to hotels on the overnights.

Oh and by the way, just because a very large group of individuals work under a contract doesn't mean that everyone voted yes or was infavor of it. Some companies don't have memrat (member ratification) on contracts or other proposals. IN other words, it is like our governement. We elect officials to vote on issues for us... same thing with some union issues and contracts.

AZJ

[This message has been edited by azj (edited 10-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by azj (edited 10-01-2002).]