Changes "not so major" says CO agent
Sep 4, 2002, 7:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 123
Changes "not so major" says CO agent
Booking some travel this evening, I talked to a very nice res agent in Houston who said he had just been given a flyer about the onepass changes coming for 2003. He said they will be announced in the October newsletter, but he could not reveal what the changes were. He DID say that they are not as severe as US AIR's changes, but there are cuts ahead with regard to mileage earnings, and some new fees for various services.
"Don't worry too much, all fares will still earn miles, but that's about all I can say right now."
I guess we'll know pretty soon!
"Don't worry too much, all fares will still earn miles, but that's about all I can say right now."
I guess we'll know pretty soon!
Sep 4, 2002, 8:10 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: EWR
Posts: 894
Bendover and get ready for non-upgradable TurQey fares!
Sep 4, 2002, 9:58 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Akron, OH USA CO Gold
Posts: 172
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sgopal2:
Bendover and get ready for non-upgradable TurQey fares!</font>
Bendover and get ready for non-upgradable TurQey fares!</font>
I'm skeptical but who knows, all we can do is hope for the best.
Sep 5, 2002, 3:18 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K/*G
Posts: 2,397
No Onepass upgrades on T/Q could only apply to mileage and not to Elite upgrades, which would be more reasonable I think.
Sep 5, 2002, 3:41 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 852
I predict that we will receive these cuts with relief and a feeling that they are not so bad, just look at the other guys.
The frequent flier programs are being phased out. The airlines know this is not an overnight thing- they've already been at it for at least five years. Gradual (or abrupt) diminution of earning opportunities, coincident with difficulty in spending what's earned.
My personal goal is to bring my balance to zero over the next 18 months, and then status be darned, I'll fly on the cheapest and most convenient carrier. The airlines follow each other into commodity-dom, and I shall use them accordingly.
The frequent flier programs are being phased out. The airlines know this is not an overnight thing- they've already been at it for at least five years. Gradual (or abrupt) diminution of earning opportunities, coincident with difficulty in spending what's earned.
My personal goal is to bring my balance to zero over the next 18 months, and then status be darned, I'll fly on the cheapest and most convenient carrier. The airlines follow each other into commodity-dom, and I shall use them accordingly.
Sep 5, 2002, 6:15 am
#6
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: This year we're going to the BAFTAs!
Posts: 5,518
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RW:
never told him the exact fare codes (he wouldn't understand the codes anyway) but I assume T/Q.</font>
never told him the exact fare codes (he wouldn't understand the codes anyway) but I assume T/Q.</font>
Sep 5, 2002, 7:00 am
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: new york, ny, usa
Posts: 13,536
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SMessier:
Do you work with FCOTSTY by any chance? </font>
Do you work with FCOTSTY by any chance?
</font>
love the double face.
Sep 5, 2002, 7:12 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: EWR
Posts: 894
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dbaker:
No Onepass upgrades on T/Q could only apply to mileage and not to Elite upgrades, which would be more reasonable I think.</font>
No Onepass upgrades on T/Q could only apply to mileage and not to Elite upgrades, which would be more reasonable I think.</font>
CO has been doing this for quite some time in the RewardOne program. No points are awarded to Q or T fares.
BendForward, HoKeY, and now TurQey!
Sep 5, 2002, 7:23 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: This year we're going to the BAFTAs!
Posts: 5,518
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fly co to see the yanks:
love the double face.</font>
love the double face.</font>
Sep 5, 2002, 7:32 am
#10
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Promoted to Chairman of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines Highly Valuable OnePass Program Security and Ideological Purity Bureau
Posts: 4,129
I disagree that FF programs are being phased out. Rather, they are returning to their original mission -- to reward the loyalty of high-revenue frequent customers.
Sep 5, 2002, 9:04 am
#11
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: San Francisco (Marin County), CA
Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime ExecPlat, LH HON Circle, SQ PPS Solitaire, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 3,002
Wow, Avek00, you have really changed your tune lately.
To address your point, the airlines,if what you describe is their mission, are doing a poor job.
People want to divide "high revenue business pax" and "low revenue leisure pax" into distinct categories. You just can't do this. By limiting OnePass benefits in the way CO has done, you do in fact alienate high fare business pax away from you.
I'll explain why using my habits because I think I am a good example, though I would not limit the category-blurring I describe to cases just like mine.
I'm an attorney at one of the top 50 law firms in the US in terms of size. I work on many transjurisdictional matters and travel frequently for business, though this travel is almost 100% domestic. My guess is that my annual employer-paid airline travel costs are about $30,000-40,000. We don't have preferred carriers, and I am free to choose my carrier with some limitations imposed by ethics in cases where a client is paying for the travel.
I recently directed all of this budget away from the CO/NW system because of CO's changes to international upgrades. That is because, the main value I get out of my miles is personal, international travel benefits. I need some "stash" of miles to use when I do my leisure international trips, so I now fly American mostly to get these miles.
That's just one example of how CO's "brilliant" international yield management and affinity decisions have cost them. See, its not so easy just to take one product line and clamp down on it and say "cool, we've fixed this right now." Every product line and every decision interrelates across the business because passengers are not simple, they are complex, and they make complex decisions.
To address your point, the airlines,if what you describe is their mission, are doing a poor job.
People want to divide "high revenue business pax" and "low revenue leisure pax" into distinct categories. You just can't do this. By limiting OnePass benefits in the way CO has done, you do in fact alienate high fare business pax away from you.
I'll explain why using my habits because I think I am a good example, though I would not limit the category-blurring I describe to cases just like mine.
I'm an attorney at one of the top 50 law firms in the US in terms of size. I work on many transjurisdictional matters and travel frequently for business, though this travel is almost 100% domestic. My guess is that my annual employer-paid airline travel costs are about $30,000-40,000. We don't have preferred carriers, and I am free to choose my carrier with some limitations imposed by ethics in cases where a client is paying for the travel.
I recently directed all of this budget away from the CO/NW system because of CO's changes to international upgrades. That is because, the main value I get out of my miles is personal, international travel benefits. I need some "stash" of miles to use when I do my leisure international trips, so I now fly American mostly to get these miles.
That's just one example of how CO's "brilliant" international yield management and affinity decisions have cost them. See, its not so easy just to take one product line and clamp down on it and say "cool, we've fixed this right now." Every product line and every decision interrelates across the business because passengers are not simple, they are complex, and they make complex decisions.
Sep 5, 2002, 9:07 am
#12
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: San Francisco (Marin County), CA
Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime ExecPlat, LH HON Circle, SQ PPS Solitaire, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 3,002
To add one thing as I think about it:
While most low fare leisure travelers don't regularly purchase high fare tickets, most high fare business passengers do play in the leisure market regularly. These high fare business customers are generally "smart people" - that's why they have the types of jobs that they do. And these "smart people" are exceedingly complex, love to do personal travel for vacations, and know a good deal from a bad deal. They are smart enough to make complex decisions such as the "abandon Onepass" decision I just described.
So, Continental's "enhancements" to Onepass, I would argue, are not at all without very negative ramifications.
While most low fare leisure travelers don't regularly purchase high fare tickets, most high fare business passengers do play in the leisure market regularly. These high fare business customers are generally "smart people" - that's why they have the types of jobs that they do. And these "smart people" are exceedingly complex, love to do personal travel for vacations, and know a good deal from a bad deal. They are smart enough to make complex decisions such as the "abandon Onepass" decision I just described.
So, Continental's "enhancements" to Onepass, I would argue, are not at all without very negative ramifications.
Sep 5, 2002, 9:22 am
#13
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Manasquan, NJ
Posts: 1,413
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thesilb:
While most low fare leisure travelers don't regularly purchase high fare tickets, most high fare business passengers do play in the leisure market regularly. These high fare business customers are generally "smart people" - that's why they have the types of jobs that they do. And these "smart people" are exceedingly complex, love to do personal travel for vacations, and know a good deal from a bad deal. They are smart enough to make complex decisions such as the "abandon Onepass" decision I just described.
So, Continental's "enhancements" to Onepass, I would argue, are not at all without very negative ramifications. </font>
While most low fare leisure travelers don't regularly purchase high fare tickets, most high fare business passengers do play in the leisure market regularly. These high fare business customers are generally "smart people" - that's why they have the types of jobs that they do. And these "smart people" are exceedingly complex, love to do personal travel for vacations, and know a good deal from a bad deal. They are smart enough to make complex decisions such as the "abandon Onepass" decision I just described.
So, Continental's "enhancements" to Onepass, I would argue, are not at all without very negative ramifications. </font>
Robin
Sep 5, 2002, 9:26 am
#14
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,748
I have a simple formula:
"I am loyal to the airline(s) that treats me well regardless of fare. I direct my high fare tickets to the airline(s) I am loyal to".
If CO could cater to this simple formula, they would have had my business. They didn't. So I quit flying CO.
Platinum status on CO earned last year. Just a single flight on free vouchers on CO this year. Meanwhile I earned 1k on UA this year, and on my way to earning Platinum on AA and Frequent Traveller status on LH by the end of the year.
A mix of low-fares and high-fares all of which would have helped CO's bottom line. Clearly CO thinks I am helping them by staying away. Their loss.
"I am loyal to the airline(s) that treats me well regardless of fare. I direct my high fare tickets to the airline(s) I am loyal to".
If CO could cater to this simple formula, they would have had my business. They didn't. So I quit flying CO.
Platinum status on CO earned last year. Just a single flight on free vouchers on CO this year. Meanwhile I earned 1k on UA this year, and on my way to earning Platinum on AA and Frequent Traveller status on LH by the end of the year.
A mix of low-fares and high-fares all of which would have helped CO's bottom line. Clearly CO thinks I am helping them by staying away. Their loss.
Sep 5, 2002, 9:35 am
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Promoted to Chairman of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines Highly Valuable OnePass Program Security and Ideological Purity Bureau
Posts: 4,129
Originally posted by thesilb:
"People want to divide "high revenue business pax" and "low revenue leisure pax" into distinct categories. You just can't do this."
High-revenue business pax and low-revenue leisure pax ARE distinct categories of travelers. Recall that top 5% of so of fliers generate at least 40-50% of the revenue at most major airlines. Conversely, the bottom 50% of travelers only generate about 5-10% of the revenue.
The original purpose of frequent-flier programs was to spur loyalty among that top 5%. Over time, the programs had grown to reward pax who simply flew frequently, without regard for the amount of revenue that said travelers brought to the airline.
[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 09-05-2002).]
"People want to divide "high revenue business pax" and "low revenue leisure pax" into distinct categories. You just can't do this."
High-revenue business pax and low-revenue leisure pax ARE distinct categories of travelers. Recall that top 5% of so of fliers generate at least 40-50% of the revenue at most major airlines. Conversely, the bottom 50% of travelers only generate about 5-10% of the revenue.
The original purpose of frequent-flier programs was to spur loyalty among that top 5%. Over time, the programs had grown to reward pax who simply flew frequently, without regard for the amount of revenue that said travelers brought to the airline.
[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 09-05-2002).]