Okay, I know people are going to tell me that the OnePass miles and elite qualifying miles/segments are not worth.

I took a roundtrip DCA<->DEN or Northwest with connections in MSP around Christmas.

Okay, here's the good part about flying NW:

1) They do the check-in's well. I checked in the elite line, but both at DCA and DEN the lines were very short and they had e-ticket machines up and running at both airports.

2) MSP is a nice hub now with lots of eating options (handy since NW doesn't serve food in coach on most flights). With the new terminal at DTW opening, only MEM will remain as a artifact from before the jet age.

3) I flew on a relatively new A319 and they are nice and new, but even compared to US Scareways, the first class appointments just suck.

4) Internet check-in rocks! Every airline should have this option.

5) New "improved" first class seating means upgrades are easy to get. I've flown 8 segments this year as a Gold Elite and have yet to sit in coach.

Okay, here's why I may never fly them:

1) I was originally ticketed on a e-ticket purchased through Orbitz. Orbitz normally notified you when schedules change or flights are cancelled. NW neglected to notify Orbitz and went ahead and reticked me from a MEM connection outbound (flights are not resuming until after the holidays, but NW had them listed in the computer) to a MSP connecton TWO days before departure. Yup, no EUA and not even SEAT ASSIGNMENTS... I did get first class upgrades on both legs, but couldn't board until 10 minutes before the flight.

2) Connecting flight is late due to a mechanical delay on the inbound flight. Delay gets prolonged and we get moved to another gate (a nice hike) and get a reserve plane. We arrive in DEN over 1 hour late.

3) Baggage takes over 30 minutes to get out on belt due to the belt stopping half way through. My bags were not there, and there were 10-15 of us in the same boat. Given that the delay took place, they had 2 hours to transfer the baggage. Flight was packed (every seat filled) and I bet you they left several bags behind but took they paying freight and mail.

4) Told bag was on next flight and would be delivered the same day. Northworst bagggage service didn't answer phone all evening. Baggage was delivered at 7:15AM the NEXT day a about 14 hours after my flight arrived.

5) Food service in F is awful. Except on West Coast flights, warm meals are gone... replaced by disgusting sandwiches which all come with way too much mayonaise (I guess putting it in a packet on the side would detract) on bread that is hardly fresh. No choice of type of sandwich just one, take it or leave it. On 1 flight they didn't bother to serve a pre-flight drink and on 3 out of 4 I had to ask them to take my coat after patiently waiting for over 5 minutes. NW flight attendants seem so unmotivated.

6) DC9s and 727s have to GO! Northworst actually has DC9s on MSP<->DCA. Those things should be relegated to flying to midwestern and southern destinations which have little choice in the way of jet service.

7) New "First" class seating is terrible. Cloth low back seats... recline and the person behind you can deposit lots of germs on your head if they cough of sneeze.

[This message has been edited by dguruswamy (edited 12-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dguruswamy (edited 12-29-2001).]

Your experiences match my own almost exactly. That said, NW if F on a DC9 is still better than coach on any other domestic airline (Midwest Express the exception of course). I'll try to fly on CO whenever possible, but if schedule (or fare) forces it, I'm more than happy to fly NW.

I'm certainly no apologist for NW. Actually, I'm a frequent critic as well. But I'm going to take issue with some of the criticisms you posted.

1. Why do you make it someone else responsibility to notify you of a schedule change? You book thru an online service with next to no customer service, so you are computer literate. You can always go online at NWA.com, and check your itinerary, no matter where it was purchased. On the other hand, my old fashioned travel agent e-mails me a new copy of a schedule change, as soon as she is made aware of it. But had you taken the time to check, you would've known.

2. what? they were supposed to fly the broken airplane? how can you complain about a mechanical? if it only took NW an hour to decide to substitute an aircraft (which probably meant calling a reserve crew from home), they did it darn fast. you were lucky to be so inconvenienced!

3. No excuse for bags not connecting. None. Did you complain to NW in writing, and copy in the FAA? If you don't, it will never get fixed.

4. No excuse. Repeat comments above.

5. Who flies for the food? You just got done saying how good the food court at MSP was! I found the new sandwiches from MSP-PDX to be a cut above pre 9/11 NW F/C food. You want something specific, order a special meal.

I will agree with you about NW F/A's however. There is absolutely no product consistency. Seems like it totally depends on the will of the F/A whether coats are taken, pre-dep drinks get served, etc.

6. I haven't been on a 727 lately, but they are being phased out in favor of 319/320's. all the 9's have had their pax cabins a completely refurbished. The 9 is on DCA-MSP because it is the most efficient airplane for the route. NW doesn't need more seats out of DCA right now.

7. Ohmigoodness.... Cloth? And you MUST be the person who always sits in front of me, and insists on reclining into my lap from taxi-out until final approach! I don't recline much because of a compressed disc in my back. Sorry if I sneeze on you, but you are the one who insisted on invading my personal space in your quest for more of your own.

You got there safe, and within an hour of when you were scheduled to, and had a light snack on the way. I don't really expect too much more out of an airline. But as I said before, if you really want to make a change, put it in writing, on paper!

Duxfan, well said! I often think you CO guys are awfully hard on NW, sometimes with warrant, sometimes without.

There's no excuse for lost luggage, but isn't NW one of the best for luggage? Try flying UA--their luggage delivery performance is HORRIBLE. Every airline has a bad luggage day. Send them a letter--they'll probably compensate you.

As for the food, COs is generally better, but the NW sandwich is decent. I often find their food to be as good or better than UA.

As for the old aircraft, they are working on it. The DC-9s aren't that bad...and they are being replaced with 319/320s (yes, oh my gosh, with CLOTH seats). A more serious complaint may be that they don't offer in flight audio and video. At least NW doesn't fly 737s and RJs to Timbuktu.

Good point. Audio and video are not that important to me (I carry my own, so I get what I want), but an A319/320 is much more comfortable than a 737, especially on a long haul. NW has gotten about 80% of my OnePass flying this year because so many CO routes from CLE are on RJ's.

I love it when people complain about the person in front reclining their seat. That is what the seat is designed to do. It does not "invade" your personal space. I always make sure that the "coast is clear" before I recline my seat, but will not sit in a completely upright position for several hours just because the person behind me wants me to.



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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I can give up getting FF miles anytime, sure I can, I am not addicted, I swear.

seth, theres a happy medium between completely upright, and completely reclined. i always seem to get the person who feels that they must sit as close to completely flat as possible, for the ENTIRE flight! and it does invade my personal space, as it makes it impossible for me to use my laptop tray and my computer. and from the same respect, i personally think it's rude of the person in front of me to expect me to want to recline, just because he or she wants to!

of course, a lot of this would be moot if NW would move to slimmer seats, or take a row out of coach to expand the poor FC legroom on NW...

Actually, the average recline of a coach seat is 2-3 inches, leaving very little in the context of a happy medium recline. At 6'1 225 I despise coach as much as the next person; however, when I get stuck back there I assume the person in front of me will recline their seat, as they should be able to. If my recline infringes on the ability of the person behind me to use their laptop, I am sorry, but that honestly is not my problem. If working on a plane is so very important to a person, FC is always an option, albeit an expensive one. I agree that a MRTC philosophy would help the problem a great deal. However, IMHO, it isn't going to happen on NW or CO anytime soon.
Wow, a difference of opinion on FlyerTalk..imagine that!


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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I can give up getting FF miles anytime, sure I can, I am not addicted, I swear.

2-3 inch recline??? What airline are you flying??....I've only gotten stuck in coach a few times in the past few years...I have had someone's head virtually in my lap.I've also politely asked these people not to recline all the way and /or jammed my knees against their seat so they couldn't possibly recline even if they wanted to. (only do that in extreme cases) I'm pretty intimidating at 6' 2" 275 lbs. I also look like I'm PO'd most of the time (well..if I'm in coach...I AM PO'd ) Maybe that's it!

[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 12-28-2001).]

CO website lists recline in coach at 3" from upright. From what I could find checking websites and talking with F/A's at other carriers, this is the norm...some have as little as 2", others will be closer to 4. Since standard coach seat pitch is 30-32", the 3" recline can be very noticable.

I am told I look mean also..which can be a good thing. Maybe that is why no one bugs me when I recline my seat. FORTUNATELY, except on ERJ's, I have not had to experience "behind the curtain" in almost three years....perhaps sacrificing that non-elite OnePass member at the Elite Alter once a month helps .

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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I can give up getting FF miles anytime, sure I can, I am not addicted, I swear.

That 2-3 inches seems like a helluva lot more on NW....that's the only one where I've sat in back. Due to last minute changes. That's where the guys head was practically in my lap and had to ask him not to recline so much. I could care less about working on the PC while flying. I'm a firm believer of leaving work..AT WORK. I do not work at all outside of my job site and I wish more people would see it that way. There's too much stress in this world already...we all need to relax.

I see we agree on something. I just have to convince my boss, or win POWERBALL!


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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I can give up getting FF miles anytime, sure I can, I am not addicted, I swear.

In response to...

...the good:
1) The check-ins are, indeed, nice. They have good e-tix machines, modeled after the AS machines, both of which have improved in the past year or so (adding the ability to stand by for earlier flights, change seating, and upgrade).
2) MSP is a pretty nice hub, though the walking distance between gates can be huge. A shuttle train like DTW's getting would do wonders at MSP.
3) A319/20/21s are attractive from the pax perspective, though I understand that maintenance on them is a bear.
4) NW "borrowed" the rockin' Internet checkin from AS. I've been using AS's Internet checkin for over a year now, and it's the only way I'll do it now...especially since I can now do it with upgraded itineraries.
5) Yes, it's easier to get a seat up front...

...the bad:
1) I disagree to a certain extent with duxfan's characterization. Not everyone has the time or inclination to check on their itineraries daily. And a ticket is a contract with the airline...if the airline changes the schedule, they have broken the contract and are obligated to inform me that they have done so.
2) I agree fully with duxfan here. MX happens. Now, if you see a pattern of MX problems, that's another story. For example, CO used to have amazing amounts of engine problems with their MadDogs in 1994. Personally, I suspect it's because they were doing powerbacks everywhere with 'em, but it may well be something else entirely. Regardless, their lack of reliability would be cause to consider flying with someone else. A single incident is hardly cause.
3) I'm in total agreement with dux.
4) Ditto.
5) I don't like their food much, either. Dux asks who chooses their airline based on food...well, I'm one that does. It's not the only factor, but it sure counts in my equation.
6) The last time I flew on a 727 was a NW plane in October of 1999. I felt like I was back in the '70s. (I'm old enough to have been there, and young enough to have not done the things that would have made me forget those years. ) I agree that it's about time the 727s get retired, and the DC9s get replaced by 717s or A318s. Then again, I'm simply tired of NW flying ancient aircraft. I imagine that they should start putting decals by the doors (where CO puts their JD Power decals) that say "Don't laugh...it's paid for."
7) I hate hate HATE the new FC on NW. Tight pitch, thin, uncomfortable seats. I don't care about them being cloth...the CO BF seats are cloth and their the most comfortable seats I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in. I mind them having no padding to speak of, and being nearly as tight a pitch as coach. They're nothing more than wider versions of CO's coach seats, which are undoubtedly the most uncomfortable seats in the air today. Personally, I'd pick coach on AS before I'd take FC (domestically)on NW anymore.

duplicate post deleted

[This message has been edited by dguruswamy (edited 12-29-2001).]