Hi,

I'm not sure wht you call this, but I'm thinking about booking the following two itineraries:

#1:

3/1/01 SFO->BUF
3/27/01 BUF->SFO

#2:

3/2/01 BUF->SFO
3/26/01 SFO->BUF

So this, in effect, gives me two nights in Buffalo, one in early March, one later. Is this illegal according to CO rules? If so, is the computer going to catch it and demote me to Infinite Blacklist?

Thanks.

This is back to back ticketing.

Most T/A's will not do this anymore.

Technically, it is against the terms and conditions. If caught, they can do anything to you that they want. Including, loss of mileage, loss of elite status and or charge you for the "true" cost of the tickets.

If you are intent on doing this. Use a second airline for one of the pairs. Makes it much harder to detect.

Why is this illegal IF he flies all segments?
The key is he must fly all segments as booked. CO sold him 2 tickets and he is simply flying the segments they sold him.
Of course its illegal if he only flys segment 1 of #1 and segment 1 of #2 and throws away the other segments. SO long as he flys the segments as ticketed, it should be legal.

How about not illegal but rather against the fare rules, assuming the fares require a Saturday night stay, that is. Neither of his stays-- at BUF or SFO are Saturdays. He is avoiding the stay requirement that the airlines stipulated in order to fly at that price.

I issued a ticket EWR-LAX-EWR-PVD. I am not going to fly the segment EWR-PVD. It saves me about $60 as opposes to simply ticket EWR-LAX-EWR. Is this illegal?

If he is booking and flying these tickets to avoid a higher fare then it is against the airline's rules and they can subject him to severe penalties.

I think dallasflyer is correct. According to CO's contract of carriage (rule 100, part H) it states:

The purchase and use of Flight Coupons for two or more Tickets issued at round trip fares for the purpose of circumventing applicable tariff rules (such as advance purchase/minimum stay requirements) commonly referred to as �Back-to-Back Ticketing� is prohibited by CO.

Refer to part (I) of rule 100 in the contract for the LONG list of actions they can take against you if they deem you have committed this type of violation.

Ticketing in such a fashion as to lower a fare without using all segments in order is a violation of fare rules. If your EWR-PVD leg is on a different day than LAX-EWR, just call and cancel EWR-PVD after you return to EWR. If EWR-PVD is a connection from LAX-EWR, then you run the risk of getting caught, although probably nothing will happen, but technically it could.

You are toast. If the computer catches you... Calling won't do squat. Yes, this is prohibited. They can charge you the higher price and give you no miles and takes your miles in your account AND AND AND AND... They might not get you for one infraction. But do it several times and you tempt fate. Bottom line, you made a contract with them and are breaking it.

jspear:

I remember reading somewhere that the airlines won't get all that upset with what you're doing. It's not really that much different than booking a RT to London, and then booking a LGW to DUB RT, because the two fares are cheaper than a direct flight to DUB. I believe they call these "nested" flights, and is tolerated. The key is that you must fly all segments.

What drives them ballistic is when you book a multiple leg trip, and then don't fly one leg because the three leg trip is cheaper than the two leg trip. Doing this, the airline can cancel the remainder of your trip, deny you miles, and even cancel out your frequent flyer's account.

In the first instance, you actually flew the trip you contracted for. Although you are flying another RT before you complete the first round trip, you are still adhering to the terms of the first RT.

OTOH, in the second instance (back to back ticketing), you have taken a more expensive, albeit shorter, flight in order to deprive the airline of revenue. At least that's how they see it!

Anyhow, it's doubtful if they would catch you flying nested flights! It's not flying one or more segments on a routing that throws up a red flag in the computer.

OnePassLover:

Not illegal...just a violation of your contract with the airline. You won't be arrested, but you could have the rest of your trip cancelled, with no refund. Furthermore, the airline can deny you any miles for the flight segments completed, and even cancel out your frequent flyer account, causing you to lose all accumulated miles. Not really worth what you might save, IMHO!

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"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

Thanks CameraGuy,

I think I just might book one itinerary on another airline. I'll make Platinum anyway next year -- no need to tempt fate.

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Guess I will spend a night in PVD...
Good excuse to visit some old friends...
Strange that I cannot throw away my last segment...
Glad that I pop the question...
Thought that I was a genuine to figure a way to beat the system...

I booked two trips to MCO using this rational and saved major bucks. However, each direction was on a different carrier. TWA going down, CO MCO-MCI, TWA back. Various other trips on CO and TWA: 2-3 weeks later, TWA to MCI, CO MCI-MCO and TWA back. Did this twice and saved around $1500 for midweek travel. All legs in first class on both carriers, and got to fly on the new 767 from MCO-EWR.

One savvy CO reservationist did notice that I had several open itineraries in the middle of one of the MCI-MCO trips. My reply "do you folks want my business, or are we going to split hairs." She stated their was nothing illegal about this, but it must have taken some planning.

TWA didn't have any idea, just happy to have a non-Lowestfare passenger on board.

IMO, SemiElite is correct about jspear's original question. This is nested. Notice that both segments in #2 occur between the 1st and 2nd segment in #1. Suppose the 2 segments in #1 were January 1 out to BUF and December 31 back. Does this mean jspear could not fly back and forth weekly during the year on additional revenue tickets and simply fly the 2nd segment home on Dec 31? Would CO not want his business on this route for the whole year?

SemiElite- I think your analogy to a nested flight (like JFK-LGW, then LGW-DUB r/t) is not exactly the same as the given situation. The flight you describe involves going from point A to B, then B to C, then back.

However what jspear wants to do is fly A to B, then fly from B back to A. Not quite the same. This is clearly (IMO) what the airlines refer to as back-to-back ticketing (since it appears the reason jspear is booking it this way is to avoid paying 2 rather high fares for 1 night stays in BUF). And based on the CO rule I posted above, that is a no no

Whether it is worth the risk of being caught for doing this, well that is up to the individual. I would go with the advice of booking on 2 airlines since that makes it much harder to detect.