Hey, just wondering if this is worth sending a letter about. Several days ago, my wife and I flew EWR-PHX and were standing by to upgrade to FC. About 10 minutes before the flight was to take off, I told the gate agent that we were on the waiting list and asked what our chances were. She said FC was full. OK. So we get on the plane. Not only was FC not full, there were 3 open seats. (We were in 2nd row in coach and were able to see what happened.) A few minutes later one guy takes a seat, and then soon after another from coach is pulled up front. That leaves one seat. Since we had been told that two Plats were ahead of us (though, theoretically, one just UG'd and one guy in 1st row of coach was looking anxiously ahead), I just stopped monitoring things.

Anyhow, as we pulled away from the gate, I noticed that the final seat was still empty. We may not be elites yet, but it seems like they should have made some effort. Why even have a waiting list?

I would have just taken it in stride, but my previous trip on CO, I also stood by to UG and was told no seats, only to see the last seat given to a CO pilot.

Since every airline employee knows full well the chasm between coach and first, it seems like if they were truly focused on customers, they would make every effort to give those seats away to customers.

Is this a worthwhile beef?

I'm confused. How were you doing the upgrade if you weren't elite? Was it by using a standby certificate?

Also, if you were flying with your wife, perhaps they didn't want to split you two up, given that there was only one seat available in FC.

All I can say is that your experience doesn't match mine, but I've been an elite for several years now (missed infinite by about six months).

------------------
Michael

Yes, "just" a certificate from the Prestige Pack.

Joined OP about a year ago and took first CO flight since I was a kid, and both my wife and I have generally been impressed by CO, as compared with other airlines.

But the experiences I mentioned above were a bit annoying. I don't mind the fact that the standby upgrades put you after all elites (although it would be nice if it said so on the certificates), but if you're on the list, they should pay attention to it.

As for splitting us up, I would have made sure my wife could fly up front, and CO had offered in the past to split us up on such an occasion.

As I said, it wasn't a major inconvenince, although a cross-country flight could have been much more confortable for my wife, at least, had they asked.

motnot:

NO.

The fact is you paid a for-profit airline a certain amount of money to receive service of a specified level that should have been understood by you and your wife at the time you booked your flight.

Therefore, CO - or another other airline, for that matter - really don't have any obligation to upgrade you simply because you wanted it on whatever basis to which you believed you were entitled to have it, particularly since you said yourself that you are not Elite.

Even for Elites, receiving an upgrade sometimes can be elusive.

With all due respect motnot, I'm really somewhat surprised at your apparent sense of entitlement to upgrades when clearly there isn't a precedent for such a belief, whereas there are clearly defined and airline-endorsed means of achieving upgrades (through *earning* Elite status, redeeming FF points, etc.). If you wanna play, you might just have to try out for the team, just like the rest of us...



[This message has been edited by FQTV (edited 04-14-2000).]

Well, using certificates, they may have had a fairly valid reason not to process once you boarded.

They would technically have to split the record, so that you and your wife had different PNRs, and then process the paper upgrade as to one of the PNRs. This would be the correct way to do it in the system. They would have needed to deplane you, or at least come on, get your certificate, go off and do some significant work, and then get back on and re seat one of you.

In the future, don't board the plane if you are using a paper upgrade. Wait outside, and make sure to proactively offer to split up, if you really want to do this.

And I should have expressly written this above: but the reason they would be justified in NOT doing this within that window of time to departure, would be that you would have an entire plane of people waiting for a record to be split.

Well written, FQTV.

I must strongly disagree, FQTV. The fact is motnotn DID pay CO for the privilege of upgrading. He paid $$$ for the Prestige pack, thus entitling him to a certain number of class of service upgrades.

Worth a letter? Well, that's up to you, motnot. My opinion would be no. CO really didn't have space available until after the flight was in its very final stages of boarding.

"Since every airline employee knows full well the chasm between coach and first, it seems like if they were truly focused on customers, they would make every effort to give those seats away to customers.

Is this a worthwhile beef?"

... Prestige Pack certs or not, it is in THIS spirit that I answered motnot in the manner that I did.

The sense of undeserved entitlement is unacceptable. Would I love to be kicked up to BusinessFirst whenever flying an intercontinental long haul and booked in economy? Sure I would. As I'm sure anybody else who's in coach.

Sometimes, the gate crew recognize me and do me a little favor. But do I EXPECT it? No way. Do I often see a lot of empty seats in FC when I don't get it? Sure I do. Do I always get Elite upgrades, even when ITN says there are plenty of open seats in FC? Nope. Do I get hissy about, "If airlines only cared, they'd upgrade everyone they could"? No way!

Do I feel great when I do get the Elite upgrade, or the comp to BusinesFirst? You bet I do, and that's what these INCENTIVE programs or gestures are out to do - make you feel good so that you'll feel good about giving the airline repeat business. Not smug and satisfied cause you got what you think you shudda got just cuz you get on one of their planes a little more often than the next guy...

With airlines, like any other product or service company, there are distinct differences in fares which vary with the class of service provided. The airlines have no obligation to provide a level of service other than what was purchased. Of course, smart business sense tells you a once-in-a-while investment in customer service (like the occassional, random complimentary upgrade) does a lot for the consumer satisfaction ethos.

For instance, I'll never forget how grateful I am that a few years ago a check-in agent just out of the blue and with a wink comped my travel partner and myself to First Class on a US Airways transcon. However I happen to feel about US overall (and particularly in comparison to CO), that's definitely points in US' favor that I take into consideration even today.

But, to bring this back to the question at hand, upgrades are perhaps most easily obtained by way of Elite membership. And upgrades given through Elite programs -EARNED INCENTIVE (not PURCHASED ENTITLEMENT) programs - aren't always freely obtained, so why someone who besides having a purchased a pack of upgrade certificates (on a space-available basis) should automatically expect something just cause they believe they're entitled to it doesn't sit well me, and, quite frankly, make me wonder just how many of the mad-as-hell air fliers in recent news really know what they're talking about when it comes to what is acceptable service from airlines.

Expecting to get upgraded just cause there are empty seats in first is NOT a basis for dissatisfaction, certificates or not, and hence my reply to motnot.

Indeed FC may show "full" to the gate agent. However, there are sometimes no-shows and missed connections, etc. That's one of the reasons that you should not board if you are using a "certificate". There is the old adage of "being in the right place at the right time". If you are in front of the gate agent then he/she may just process your certificate and you will get the upgrade.

FQTV wrote: "With all due respect motnot, I'm really somewhat surprised at your apparent sense of entitlement to upgrades when clearly there isn't a precedent for such a belief, whereas there are clearly defined and airline-endorsed means of achieving upgrades (through *earning* Elite status, redeeming FF points, etc.). If you wanna play, you might just have to try out for the team, just like the rest of us..."

FQTV, first of all, regarding your "all due respect" line, it sounds like you have no respect at all for me as you imply that I was trying to skirt the rules and get something for nothing.

As for my "sense of entitlement," the only sense of entitlement I have is that I be treated fairly and honestly, period.

As for "clearly defined and airline-endorsed means of achieving upgrades," I was playing by the rules. I purchased the upgrade certificates that the company offered to sell me and got on the waiting list.

I was disturbed by your second post, which implied that I thought I should be upgraded simply because I wanted to and that the only acceptable upgrades in your mind are elite upgrades. If you don't like CO offering upgrade certificates to people, then maybe you should be the one writing a letter.

Your tone (especially in your second post) suggested that I was trying to pull a fast one.

As I said, I'm fairly new to OnePass, but there's a good chance this year that I will qualify for elite status. The trick to customer service is making each customer feel as if they are the company's most valued. Does that mean depriving an elite to give an upgrade to someone like myself? Of course not. But that wasn't what I was asking about.

All I was asking was whether what happened was a breakdown in service worth sending a complaint to the company. If you re-read my messages, I said it wasn't a major inconvenience and that I've been generally impressed with Continental. Perhaps it is because I've come to expect more from them than other airlines that this incident was somewhat disappointing.

Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough, but everyone else on the thread was able to respond with graciousness. In the future, I'd appreciate it if you did the same.

[This message has been edited by motnot (edited 04-15-2000).]

motnot,

I think your attitude and your postings are totally valid. I do not agree that you have any undue sense of entitlement. Welcome to flyertalk.

You had two problems with trying to use these certificates. The first problem there is nothing you can do about it; the second problem you might be able to improve your upgrade chances next time.

The first problem is that as the bearer of a prestige pack certificate, which you paid valid and substantial consideration for, you are certainly "entitled" to get some upgrades, if space is available. However, CO has not told you when they sold you these what the actual "space is available" aspect of these paper certs really means. It means, sans elite status, that you are bottom of the list. It will be very difficult for you to use these, given the capacity of first class after all the types of people they will upgrade ahead of you will almost always be 100%. Its unusual to see seats available in first these days. I would try maybe Saturday flights, as your best chance to find open seats in first. Also, use the online services to identify potential flights with available seats.

The second issue I mentioned above, and JAWS_II mentioned it as well. Since you are bottom of the barrel here, you really need to stand out at the gate and politely make your presence known. This will increase your chances of being able to upgrade in the event that the system shows full, but there are in fact open seats. As JAWS_II points out, this happens all the time. You have revenue first pax whose PNRs are protected to 10 minutes out, even without purchase, you have missed connections, there are lots of reasons: but it does happen.

Good luck, and again, welcome to flyertalk.

Nothing personal, motnot.

Happy travels.

motnot, not to worry. keep calling them as you see them!

FQTV,

I do agree with the spirit of your argument. I try my best to appreciate when a company or one of its employees goes the extra mile.