Ok, I need some advice. I am not going to make status in 2005 with NW (job change, etc.), and I am looking at my options -- seeing whether or not staying with NW makes the most sense or not.

After reading the websites of both airlines, it seems like CO is a better deal. As I live in TUP, which is only served by NW, thus haven't looked at CO in the past. However, with the continued integration of the two programs, it seems like I will have all the advantages of NW, with the added bonus that I might actually score an international upgrade on CO, or at a minimum be able to upgrade all tickets with miles.

The domestic benefits seem to be the same, I can accrue both Onepass mileage and EQM's on a NW flight, but when I fly internationally, I will actually have a shot at an upgrade (if flying CO metal).

Does this sound right? Am I missing something?

Thanks

Ok - I'm all for CO - it's my airline of choice. That said, search for "HOKEY." I don't think you'll be getting those upgrades - at least not without gambling on a higher priced ticket, miles and cash.

Yes.

We might be able to to give you better advice if you let us know where you usually fly to, and what international destinations you'd like to upgrade on.

Snake,

Fair enough...

In the last 3 years, I've had probably 15 RT internationally. About 60% are to europe, and the rest to the Carribbean or Venesuala. The trips to Europe are the biggies -- as right now there is essentially 0 chance of getting upgraded on NWA, and if even if I do, the NWA product is not as good is CO.

Domestically, I fly all over the place, but my understanding is that as a CO elite I will have essentially the same benefits (on CO or NW) as I would as a NW elite.

To clarify my questions a little more, if I bought a deep-discounted RT to Rome, and wanted to ugrade to a BF seat, my understanding is that with miles plus $400 it wouldn't be a problem. Is this correct?

From the CO website:

BusinessFirst Select Economy Fares Upgrade Policy: Members who purchase a H, K, N, B, V, U, Q, I, S, W, T, X or L (or equivalent) fare can pay a non-refundable service fee in addition to the miles in order to upgrade to BusinessFirst. The non-refundable service fee* is $200 one way for K (or equivalent) fares, $300 one way for N, B, V and U (or equivalent) fares and $400 one way for Q, I, S, W, T, X and L (or equivalent) fares. The non-refundable service fee* is $200 one way for H or K (or equivalent) fares purchased for travel to or from Hawaii. Members will only be charged the service fee when the BusinessFirst upgrade has been cleared.

The main problem is availability of these upgrades. While I don't have a lot of experience in trying to upgrade to Europe, I can say that the only time I did try, it did not come through, and I was stuck with a coach ticket. Since then I have simply purchased BF when on sale, as it prices often about the same as the R/T + fees + miles. OTOH, I have actually been able to use my CO miles for NW upgrades in BF.

mbruer is right, do a search for "Hokey", you'll read all about it.

Robin

Hm.....

The big issue with NW is that you have to purchase a non-discounted fare in order to upgrade with miles, and its still maybe 50/50 at best.

It seems like with CO (from their website), I would have a reasonable shot at it; however, I would have to pay a "service" fee. That being said, RT+SVC+Miles is still a lot cheaper than BF in my area.

So essentially, I'm reading this that if I want to fly BF, I might as well just buy the ticket or cash in a reward for BF, because intl. upgrades are not going to happen?

My impression from following the NW and CO boards for a while now is that it's very difficult to find an upgradeable int'l seat on either. The "50/50 at best" odds you describe for upgrading on NW apply to CO upgrades, too. There is definitely no guarantee that you can find an upgradeable seat on a CO flight, even if you're willing to put up the miles and service fees.

The big difference is that with CO at least you can buy a cheap coach ticket, then if an upgradeable seat does come available, you can pay the service fee at that time along with the miles to upgrade.

With NW, you have to buy the high-priced coach ticket up front, then just hope a seat opens up so you can use your miles. When I've tried doing the math, it seems like the cheap fares + service fee on CO are often roughly equivalent to the B fares on NW.

So I would agree that if your goal is to use your miles to upgrade internationally when possible, OnePass may be slightly better program for you.

The catch is that if you're flying on a lot of cheap fares on NW metal as a OnePass member, you're only going to get 50% EQM, which makes it harder to earn status. And since NW only flies single-class SF3's (and maybe CRJs) to TUP, and CO mainly flies single-class ERJ's to MEM from its hubs, your upgrade chances if you ever do make elite are going to be much slimmer on your domestic itineraries (you can't get an upgrade if there's no first class on the plane).

So I'd say you should consider the following factors. There may be others, too, but these are the ones I can think of. How you weight them is up to you:

• How important is it that you sit in Biz Class internationally? If you really want to be up front, you're going to have to buy business tickets with either NW or CO, because odds just aren't that good of a seat being available on either. Or you might be better off going with another airline (AA? UA?) altogether that has better upgrade availability internationally. But if you just want a better shot at getting up front without having to buy the Y/B fare up front, CO is better.
• What kind of fares are you flying? If mostly higher fares (Q and higher on NW, U and higher on CO), then the EQM thing doesn't matter so much. But if you fly on a lot of cheap fares, remember that mixing metal is going to cost you EQMs whichever way you go. And if you fly cheap fares and have to buy your tickets through a company travel agent, then NW is the way to go, since CO only gives 50% EQMs on their own cheap fares unless you buy via continental.com.
• How many miles a year do you fly? If it's 100k+, then the 50% EQM thing might not matter so much.
• How important are domstic upgrades and easy connections? Flying NW metal beyond MEM you're much more likely to be on two-class planes than on CO metal from MEM. And NW mainline planes have many more FC seats than CO mainline planes, which greatly increase your upgrade chances. Also, taking CO anywhere other than IAH, CLE, and EWR will require two connections. NW has many more choices from MEM, and AFAIK all NW hub-to-hub flights are on two-class planes, so if you need to double-connect on NW, at least you'll have a shot at sitting up front for that leg.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply.

Looking from where I am right now (flying out of TUP/MEM), my original thought wasn't to actually fly on CO metal (other than intl), but to fly on NW metal and use my CO as my FF number -- since CO and NW elites get equivalent service flying on each other's planes domestically.

After testing a few tickets on co.com, I realize that if I do this, I will be unable to do this easily, and thus will lose out on the bonuses provided by co.com

That being said, I'll have to take a close look because Q (or better) is usually what I fly anyway, so the 50% penalty for booking through expedia or NWA may not be an issue...

rubindj

FYI, the "non-refundable service fee" is only paid if you actually get the upgrade.

I found that seats are available for upgrades on both airlines if you plan enough in advance and are a bit flexible about routing. I just purchased 2 tickets on NWA DTW-NRT-MNL and was able to upgrade immediately. It took a bit of creative routing, but after 10 minutes on the phone, it was mine. Also did the same for a trip to TLV next week. Both these were purchased 6-7 months out.

Also had good experience on CO upgrading to Brazil a couple times, and on NWA to Spain / Amsterdam...both of those happened just a few weeks in advance of travel.

As for making the switch, keep in mind that if you are flying NWA metal, you will only get 50% EQMs in your OP account if you are flying the cheap tickets. Now, all fare classes on NWA now get minimum of 100% EQMs and EQS. I just made the switch from CO to NWA due to the crazy rules that are now in place over at CO.