I beg to clarify... I see two types of "Preimum Carriers" Domestic and International... without any doubt, Continental's International Product for Coach and Business is on par with many airlines, but in regards to some other, quite below. I don't really consider Continental a Preimum International Carrier, but what I do consider them is a preimum domestic carrier. Why? They offer a very good First Class Product, a somewhat decent (used to be better) FFP, and serve an array of destinations that prove to be useful They also still offer more "meal service" ( a term I use casually) than many other carrier... Even thier coach product I feel is a bit better than most US carriers.....



-Vincent

The cost of labor is just a small piece of the puzzle that differentiates LCCs from traditional carriers. If Delta paid it's pilots the same as jetBlue, it would still have higher overall costs than the LCC....and frankly, LCCs are here to stay...they are the product and service innovators that will continue to create and exploit new growth segments in the industry. Now if jetBlue paid its pilots the same wages as Delta, paid into its non-existent defined-benefit retirement plan at the same funding levels, and paid its bankers the same for its airplanes as Delta, then it might be in big troube - so the concept works in the opposite direction.

I would agree that CO's coach product is 'on par' with most carriers. That is the problem. If they are on-par, then why should I pay a premium to fly them? A 17" wide seat with 31" pitch on CO is the same as the seat on DL, UA, US, AA, etc.

I do think BF is the best business product from an American carrier...but that is as of right now: what happens if/when DL revamps Business Elite...what does UA have up its sleeve based on the new PS service? How will CO respond to these challenges? If I was an Exec Plat on AA, I could upgrade 4 international r/t per year on any fare with a simple free coupon...but with CO, I either have to cough up thousands of miles and a higher base fare or pay a lower fare and a huge fee and miles. I looked at airliners.net and I don't see a huge difference between the AA business seat and the BF seat - I am sure there is a difference with service and food, but does that justify such a huge premium?

Sure there is a higher cost BUT the sole problem to day is labor. Saleries, pension, benefits. Get those in line at the big guys can thrive. The problems aren't FC, meals, unforms, table clothes, hot towels....Nice luxuries but not the big issue. Its nice AA saved $40K a year by removing two olives from salads but who CARES? $40k isn't AA's problem. Labor is killing them.

I agree things like FC, meals, etc are not the big problem. However, you can only cut salaries and benefits so much. Other than pilots, most non-management airline employees are already among the lowest paid folks around. If you cut them down too much no one will want to work in the business.

The big picture is how the business is operated. LCCs are newer companies and run clean and lean. Legacy corporations like CO and DL have massive amounts of overhead that need to get cleaned out like lint from a dryer. I have said in previous posts that before any customer benefits are cut, an airline which is primarily a service business, must examine its entire operation - everything from its cost of real estate down the monthly cost of photocopier rentals and everything in between. The business or back-end operations need to lean out to free up revenue for the service side of the business.

I look at it this way. For a manufacturing company to thrive, it must invest a certain amount of money in R+D. Even if it's not doing well, you still need R+D to drive product and manufacturing innovation. In my view, an airline must do the same. Their R+D translates into service improvements that can drive new revenue and attract business - service improvements which set it apart from the competition. So, an airline should look to cut from its business operation before cutting its customer product...and not only that, it should always have some revenue devoted to improving the customer product. The olives off the salad routine, which was an odd source of pride for Crandall, was the wrong way to go. Everyone remembers it and the amount of money saved does not come close to the damage done by the negative way it was perceived. It was not the silly olives, it was the perception that value was being removed from the product - that something was being taken away from the customers.

Right now, United doesn't have a pot to pee in money wise, but with their new PS service, they are rolling out the biggest news in airline product innovation in years. Maybe it's a gamble, but if it pays off, they have created a new product that will make their service the standard for quality when flying between the coasts. They saw the need to innovate or perish. Attract new business or be left behind. Think outside the box for once.

Look at CO - no product innovation or program changes that have any chance of driving new business. Slight improvements to BF seating certainly do not offset cutbacks and nickle-and-dime initiatives in other places. The airlines need to make money, but they won't do it by proudly showing off savings which are just cuts to service. The shareholders might like it, but the customers won't. If there aren't enough customers, there won't be any shareholders. One of CO's problems is thinking their airline is better than everyone else's because that is what Gordon says. Just because Gordon says so, doesn't make it so. Many companies have failed by assuming they are the best and their customers should be honored to do business with them. That is just the wrong attitude to have in a competitive industry where customers have choices.

Perhaps you've not heard of E+ or More Room Throughout Coach?

You can also select exit rows on AA as an elite.

The coach products are NOT the same.

CO Plat's can select exit rows at time of booking. Exit rows are enabled on co.com seat maps for Plats (all - except the reserved handicap bulkhead seats).

Of course I have...but AA has removed MRTC from a number of aircraft and UA E+ is only available to Elites and high fares. Also, the seats are the same 17" wide seats with limited personal space.

However, having said that, my point was that CO's product does not stand out when compared to its competition. AA and UA have coach products that actually do offer something abit better - more pitch. Would I pay a reasonable premium to fly AA or UA in coach? Perhaps I might, but I would not pay a premium to fly CO in coach.

Even with a couple more inches of pitch and being able to reserve exit rows (which as a CO Plat I can do also), there is no 'wow' factor on any of these carriers. Coach is coach, and a couple extra inches of pitch is not enough to motivate people to pay the kind of premium CO wants.

What % of the flying public are members of frequent flier programs?

What % of people pay first class or full coach fares versus discounted coach fares?

What % of people choose their airline based on an extra inch of seat pitch, whether or not drinks are free in the premium lounge, or the average age of aircraft in the fleet?

My guess, based on nothing more than a hunch, is that most people on a plane aren't even earning miles at all, very few folks pay the high fares, and most people choose based on price and/or convenience (nearby airport, flight times, # of connections, etc.)

It seems to me that we've been looking at this wrong. CO's EQM policy is not really designed to attract the super-premium flyer (although that could be a nice side benefit if they can make it work), but to get rid of the rest of the frequent fliers. Think about it--drastically reduce the elite rolls, shrink the FC cabins, and then focus on packing the back with people who don't expect things like free upgrades or reward tickets. They can fly lots of RJs, helping hold fares down while increasing flight frequency.

It's kind of like squeezing out the middle class. The problem I see with their strategy (if my theory is correct) is that, as others have pointed out earlier in this thread, CO does not offer a sufficiently superior product to position themselves higher in the market than all the other domestic carriers, nor are they capable of operating as efficiently as the LCCs. What a shame--for ten years or so they really had something going, but I suppose all good things must come to an end...

I have to disagree with some of what's been said here. I find CO aircraft to be newer and cleaner. They offer IFE, which airlines like NW don't. I also find the service to be generally excellent on-board. Numerous other FT folk have said the same things. Where they definitely have a problem is in seat pitch -- but seat pitch isn't the biggest thing for me (I'm not 6'6").

CO would tell you the following:
- MRTC has been a failure. AA has put back in place many of the seats it removed.
- Customers want greater frequency, not bigger planes.
- They are matching the LCCs in price and providing more service.

As far as CO packing the back with folks who don't care about anything but price is concerned, I'd have to agree. Some of us would pay a small premium to fly CO over other carriers. The way OnePass has changed in the last year or so, though, one wonders why they seem to be driving customers like this away. Loyalty should be worth a lot in the airline business. I often wonder what is in the water down in Houston....

I'm waiting to see what they have to announce in September. I sure hope we're not disappointed again.

This may be true for many airlines, particularly LLCs, but I would say that CO likely has a high percentage of FF that are earning miles. When the boarding gate announces Elite Access and half the folks at the gate board or when the gate agent announces that since 90% of the flight is Elite Access they will only board by row - then CO has a high number of FF.

I would say that CO has a small base of travelers who travel frequently, versus NW, for example, with a large base of travelers who travel infrequently. CO likely developed a loyal following after bankruptcy due to the superior FF program at that time. If One Pass becomes non-competitive with the other majors, then what will happen to loyal followers.

How does this work?
 

I'm traveling with my wife on the same R/T. I am Co Gold. Do I need to contact Co in advance to seek a companion upgrade?

You can only request this at the airport. If you are both on the same PNR then the system will skip over you rather than process you via EUA. Do a search for more details.


With regard to most of the plane qualifying for EA, that really depends on the route you are on. EWR-SFO/IAH that often happens. EWR-MCO it almost never does.

Like the rest of the industry, Continental is at sort of a stale point.. PUBLICALLY atleast... re you really sure once Continental hits the black again that the high ups at Houston don't have something up thier sleeve? It's fair to say right now they are resting on thier lurels... I don't think though they will continue to do so ... Continental's managament has always been open and forward thinking, I see no reason for it to not continue.... Give it time and they will "come to thier senses" so to speak.


-Vincent

so glad i bolted nonepass last year
 

Hello everyone, almost 9 months after I bolted for Alaska, the results are mixed. AS doesnt load you up with free drinks like CO did, but AS does appreciate you. For the most part they appreciate everyone, no matter what you paid or who you are.

The mile acceleration is the same, and miles of any type count towards elite qualification. my mega-segment runs at the cheapest possible price have been matched with a 5-pct bonus and I am moving up in the points total.

no goofy slEASYACCESS props, just a nice friendly agent and a short line, and most people who fly AS know how to use a kiosk without having to havesomeone hold their hand.

CO has sent me many offers about double miles this and that, but I am happy at AS. My feet arent kissed aymore, but I get to work towards my future travel goals and be appreciated once in awhile.

also some CLE news......the CLE-LGW ends next week, and there is talk of extending the new runway to 11k, for those imaginary flights to asia Mayor Jane thinks are coming our way....

alexa
cle