i am seeing continued posts with ft'ers referencing BF poorly.

i was under the assumption that BF was just slightly inferior to other US based carrier's international F, but far superior to their J.

am i missing something here? when people call BF dated, what are they comparing it to? Singapore, cathy pac, virgin. emirates (Arent some of these govt subsidized)? i would only assume that is so.

ive heard envoy isnt that great. DL, UA and AA's j seats are narrow. NW's are old (exception to the A330). In terms of US airlines, i dont know who else id fly.

im not talking upgrade or reward availability. Strictly service, meals and seating.

i dont fly international to often. how do BF fares compare? Judging by my first sentence, CO's prices0 should be slightly higher than competitors J but less than their F.

just snagged 3 BF seats to rio. should i have considered another airline? I have enough miles in several.

What is wrong with BF?

nothing to bother about. Don't worry, you will enjoy your trip.

I have 3 complaints:
* No avod - really not a big deal
* They are pricey
* Not quite as much seat pitch as others - not too big a deal, either.

I truly like BF. But I fly across the Pacific a lot & usually go on NW bec they have more Z fares available. When CO has a deal on Pacific BF (not very often!), I grab it.

I've flown most of the big Asian carriers. I personally think that CO's BF staff are as good as it gets. I'm sure that I'm in the minority here.

What's wrong with BF?
My view it is the senior FA crews. The international flights are more desirable and hence get senior crews (long flight - more hours in one flight - quick service, then do not have to work most of the night). This is not unique to CO but UA and others with senior crews. I think CO has some of the best crews for domestic flights - generally younger and more interested in the jobs - but the senior crews do the minimum.

My experience on a recent BF flight EWR to GRU, with a senior EWR based crew. This route tends to get a senior crew, long overnight flight in the same basic time zone.

1. I asked the FA whether the seat phones were Verizon and whether they would work for the initial part of the flight - over/near US airspace. She said she did not know, but would check. She came back and said they were Verizon. I then looked at the seat back card and the phone was some sort of Comsat satellite phone - not Verizon. If these former DC10 flight crews do not know anything about the passenger features of the aircraft, how can you be sure they know anything about the safety features of the newer CO 767 aircraft. I would bet a younger crew would be more knowledgeable.

2. All food orders were taken before the flight departed, and they were pushing the Executive Meal Option. About 1/2 the passengers then ordered it. The service was fast, quick, and without any personal touch - just going through the motions as fast as possible. Within 30 minutes after lift off (yes, 30 minutes) the Executive Meal option folks had eaten and their trays were already picked up. The other half of us, were finished within the first hour after lift off. Little coming around to see if you needed additional service. Plus the executive meal option is sort of a joke, quick service - then when they come around with the desert cart, half of executive meal passengers order the extra desert (normally comes with the peice of chocolate - versus the sundaes). The cheese course was prepared and a small plate automatically delivered. Normally, the cheese course is to be cart service, while you choose and select. Again, a very quick way to complete this course.

3. Then the senior flight crew - mostly the women FA - sat in front and proceeded to chit-chat - not picking up all the remaining service items. With my coffee cup and linens still on the tray and the flight crew off in chit-chat land, I pushed the call button. No response. I repeatly pushed the call button, easily hearing it buzz, but the FA were so involved in personal conversation - they continued to ignore it. About about 10 minutes, I finally got someone to pick it up. During the night (of this 9.5 hour flight) the crew was invisible in the back of the aircraft.

4. Overall the attitude of the senior crew was not that friendly, mechanical in nature, and overall a rushed job, and a sense of getting done ASAP so they could then do nothing.

On the return, the EWR based crew was an all minority crew of varying ages - providing excellent service at the right pace.

Maybe the job of a FA should be contract position for a fixed period of time - say 5 to 10 years. It is behind the counter where I prefer a senior GA who knows how to handle special ticket situations.

Other airlines, like Sinapore, have age limits for their FA crews, hence better service.

With security and safety concerns, I would much prefer a FA crew that is younger and stronger - better able to handle situations that might arise. The personality issue disappears as the crew gets older. Maybe the requirements for a FA should be someone that can do 20 push ups. Maybe the airlines should consider hiring returning solders for their FA.

IIRC, that EWR-GRU flight leaves after 10pm. Did you ever think that they might be rushing through the service and pushing the exec meal because of the late departure time? Most folks want to eat a bite (if they haven't already) and get to sleep. On the cheese course...they do the plates instead of the cart on that flight because it's so late...it expedites the service a bit.

I've never had a problem with BF service or features. The only time I've had a 'bad' flight attendant was on a flight to HNL, which isn't really BF.

They could answer the flight attendant call button.
They could check that they have picked up all service items before the personal chit-chat begins.

I might add, that I have flown FC on QF several times and BC on MH a few times. Both flights leave much later than 10pm and the service is prompt but without being overly rushed and without crew attitude. The Asian airline service is best, because the flight crews are interested in working and serving the passengers. US airlines get worst reviews for FC/BC international service mostly because of crew attitudes - get the job done ASAP.

Just returned from a RT BF EWR-MXP. The service was Stellar. The food was very gooid although its time to change the menu. It was a repeat menu of AMS-EWR I did in March. And too much food, I don't know how anyone can down all the courses. The crews couldn't have been more gracious. Seats very very comfortable (although I prefer the 777 BF seat). CO always goes cheap on the Champagne but flights and crews were just great.

Unlike Singapore, the U.S. is thankfully a democracy that protects the rights of workers to not be discriminated against based upon age (see the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, and subsequent amendments).

Restrictions upon age and physical ability can legally only be related to job performance. Your critique - that U.S. crews don't dote on F/J pax like the crews from some other nations - has nothing to do with age and everything to do with attitude. You seem to equate the two: they are NOT the same.

The lack-luster service sometimes found on U.S carriers is likely a result of the U.S. culture that prizes informality, speed, low cost, and efficiency. And is it any wonder that flight attendants, already pretty low on the pay scale, aren't exactly the happiest people given that they face fuller airplanes of increasingly surly people who endure greater security precautions, all while these same crews endure incredible pressure to give up pay, benefits, and/or pensions? On top of a hardly-stable future as their employers face huge financial hardships?

And how do all these affect ONLY American FAs and not anyone else?

I think he was referencing US culture, specifically, in the parts of his post that you omitted.

The job is not easy...even for those of us who truly love the people we meet on board, and the diversity therein, and even for those of us who abhor 9-5 jobs and love to travel - well it can be a truly exhausting lifestyle. Especially for those reserve flight attendants at the bottom of the seniority barrel. 16 hour days, barely any time to sleep on a 9 hour layover, lack of good nutritious food, constant dehydration, constant bombardement by various strains of germs from all corners of the planet, climate hopping, allergens in regions that our bodies aren't used to....cranky passengers. Very little, if any, real job security.

Should I go on?

I hope I don't sound as though I'm making excuses, because I am not - despite it all, we're still there to do our jobs and I am embarrassed by those of us who do not (though, we ALL have bad days - passenger and crew alike!). And I will never whine and complain to my passengers on board as to why I'm so tired, or why I'm less-than-perfectly-chipper as I've missed my mom's birthday because scheduling decided to rearrange my days off at the last minute, etc, etc. But since it is topical here, I thought you might like a little jumpseat perspective.

I wasn't meaning to discount the cultural differences, but my point was that dehydration, job insecurity, poorly performing employers etc aren't only affecting american employees.
To roughly quote him again "is it any wonder that FAs aren't the happiest people?". Why should I care, lots of Asian, South American and even European employees probably are equally unhappy but manage to deliver a professionally cheerful service.

To be fair, many European and South/Central American carriers aren't necessarily known for their professional and cheerful service. Yes, the Asian carriers are very well known for their consistently high level of service - and while I think their culture, being very different from our own, has a great influence on that...I just can't compare as I know nothing about the rules they work under.

I am sorry that you feel American carriers deliver so poorly. Most of us do actually make an effort, you know...perhaps you've just not had the priviledge of being on one of my flights? :-: :-:

I've always had an excellent experience on BF. I think some people think that they should be treated like royalty. I think if you present yourself nicely to others it will come back to you.

I really can't complain about the service. IMO, Continental offers the best business class service of any US airline and many European and Asian carriers. The service I have experienced generally ranges from stellar to above average.

I do have complaints about the seats and do not think they are terribly competitive today. When BF was introduced, the premise was that it was a first class seat at a business class price (hence the elimination of the F cabin). While other airlines have continually improved their J seats (e.g. Virgin) which also sells its Upper Class service at a business price, the seats on CO have become very average with no chance to upgrade to a F seat. I think a seat like Virgin, BA or SQ would put CO on top of the heap again but it looks like CO is no longer interested in that type of innovation. I would gladly trade seat width for a truly flat seat (and I don't mean flat at a 10 degree angle where you continually slide down the seat).

Cheers,
Brooklynflyer

BF has clearly become degraded relative to when it came out. The competition (at least the foreign ones) have continually upgraded their product over the years, while CO has barely budged. Unfortunately, CO still seems to think they can command a premium price and a far above premium upgrade policy.

Sadly, the US carriers are all so cash-strapped at this point that none can afford to upgrade their international business class cabins. Things are just going to get tougher until one or more of them fail.