757 overseas flights to avoid (unless you like fuel stops)
Jan 10, 2012, 11:18 pm
#1
Original Poster
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757s TATL-The Chickens Come Home to Roost
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...NewsCollection
If the lack of comfort on the 757s didn't bother you, maybe the delays and missed connections won't either.
Our LH flight last month was great-widebody, two seats next to the window, individual IFE, plenty of restrooms and access to them. Nary a word about fuel.
If the lack of comfort on the 757s didn't bother you, maybe the delays and missed connections won't either.
Our LH flight last month was great-widebody, two seats next to the window, individual IFE, plenty of restrooms and access to them. Nary a word about fuel.
Jan 10, 2012, 11:25 pm
#2
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lots of discussion in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...cdg-757-a.html
Jan 10, 2012, 11:30 pm
#3
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How much of the profit margin from flying 757s instead of a different plane is being eaten up by all those diversions?
Jan 11, 2012, 1:20 am
#4
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Classic example of why you should never trust newspaper articles about things you're closely familiar with -- the Journal is about three months behind FlyerTalk!
Jan 11, 2012, 3:08 am
#5
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Jan 11, 2012, 3:46 am
#6
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What I have always wondered (and this is where an actual dispatcher could help) is whether under such circumstances, significant $ could be saved by knowing that the flight will have to stop midway (e.g. KEF) from the beginning, and only loading that much fuel + reserve? I.e. they would save weight or increase loading capacity.
Because as it is, my impression is that they're loading almost all the fuel, and still don't get there in one stop...
And shouldn't this story cover Jetblue's A320s going west across the US in the same way?
Because as it is, my impression is that they're loading almost all the fuel, and still don't get there in one stop...
And shouldn't this story cover Jetblue's A320s going west across the US in the same way?
Jan 11, 2012, 6:36 am
#7
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What I have always wondered (and this is where an actual dispatcher could help) is whether under such circumstances, significant $ could be saved by knowing that the flight will have to stop midway (e.g. KEF) from the beginning, and only loading that much fuel + reserve? I.e. they would save weight or increase loading capacity.
Because as it is, my impression is that they're loading almost all the fuel, and still don't get there in one stop...
And shouldn't this story cover Jetblue's A320s going west across the US in the same way?
Because as it is, my impression is that they're loading almost all the fuel, and still don't get there in one stop...
And shouldn't this story cover Jetblue's A320s going west across the US in the same way?
Jan 11, 2012, 6:48 am
#8
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wow, I expect from the WSJ than that 
"AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, which serves six European routes with 757s, said it has had "a few" unplanned fuel stops on westbound flights, but it's "not a daily occurrence."
"The couple didn't make it home for two more days."
Really, no seats between 2 of UA's biggest hubs for 2 days?!
The comments really crack me up though.
This article isn't going to change UA's thinking on this route. They don't have the planes, and the people who bought tickets are still going to fly. Besides, they're probably making more off the cargo anyway, which as someone else said, doesn't care when it gets there.
"AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, which serves six European routes with 757s, said it has had "a few" unplanned fuel stops on westbound flights, but it's "not a daily occurrence."
Could be worse, we could be flying the dAArkside.
Westbound TATL diversions since SOC for scheduled carriers:
Westbound TATL diversions since SOC for scheduled carriers:
Code:
airline | acft | flights | diversions | rate ---------+------+---------+------------+------ AAL | B752 | 275 | 20 | 72 UAL | B752 | 983 | 62 | 63 AWE | B752 | 112 | 6 | 53 AWE | B762 | 46 | 1 | 21 UAL | B762 | 149 | 2 | 13 UAL | B764 | 148 | 1 | 6 AAL | B763 | 594 | 3 | 5 AWE | A333 | 242 | 1 | 4 BAW | B772 | 423 | 1 | 2 DAL | B763 | 1023 | 2 | 1
"The couple didn't make it home for two more days."
Really, no seats between 2 of UA's biggest hubs for 2 days?!
The comments really crack me up though.
This article isn't going to change UA's thinking on this route. They don't have the planes, and the people who bought tickets are still going to fly. Besides, they're probably making more off the cargo anyway, which as someone else said, doesn't care when it gets there.
Jan 11, 2012, 6:49 am
#9
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quite the aviation expert writing the piece: "Continental's enthusiasm for the 757 came under scrutiny four years ago when federal officials determined the carrier was responsible for nearly two-thirds of all the minimum fuel or fuel-emergency incidents reported annually by airliners landing in Newark." That's less than CO's share of slots (though presumably more than their share of overseas arrivals).
I agree it's an issue though, and borderline false advertising when a nonstop has a 4% chance of stopping. I note in this context that the 762 recently showed up on some EWR-TXL runs where I'm pretty sure it used to be 752. I imagine one would find more such instances when checking the usual suspect routes.
I agree it's an issue though, and borderline false advertising when a nonstop has a 4% chance of stopping. I note in this context that the 762 recently showed up on some EWR-TXL runs where I'm pretty sure it used to be 752. I imagine one would find more such instances when checking the usual suspect routes.
Jan 11, 2012, 7:19 am
#10
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I live in Halifax and noticed a few CO 757's recently which is uncommon for us. We usually only get the small CO props to NYC.
Now I know why I keep seeing them.
Oh, I also found this Article in my local news.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...ing-winds.html
Now I know why I keep seeing them.
Oh, I also found this Article in my local news.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...ing-winds.html
Jan 11, 2012, 7:27 am
#11
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TXL in the winter is the only route that's seen the 762 on a scheduled basis versus the "normal" 752. Been that way a couple years now.
A decent amount of the cargo that goes by air actually is somewhat time-sensitive.
Jan 11, 2012, 9:05 am
#12
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"Flying to win?" Nonstop flights for fuel
Jan 11, 2012, 9:22 am
#13
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While not the article you cite, thoughts on the subject can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...assengers.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...assengers.html
Jan 11, 2012, 9:47 am
#14
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Or in greater depth (ore on the CO 757 used in the article,) here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...cdg-757-a.html
Jan 11, 2012, 10:32 am
#15
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757 overseas flights to avoid (unless you like fuel stops)
Personally I think it should be criminal to use the 757 slave ships (as our friends at AA refer to them) for anything beyond a transcon or Hawaii.
These are the flights to avoid:
See WSJ story below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories
Might need a WSJ account to view full story so here is an excerpt:
Dozens of Continental Airlines flights to the East Coast from Europe have been forced to make unexpected stops in Canada and elsewhere to take on fuel after running into unusually strong headwinds over the Atlantic Ocean.
The stops, which have caused delays and inconvenience for thousands of passengers in recent weeks, are partly the result of a decision by United Continental Holdings Inc., the world's largest airline, to use smaller jets on a growing number of long, trans-Atlantic routes.
United's strategy works when the winds are calm, and it allows the airline to operate less expensive aircraft with fewer cabin-crew members to an array of European cities that wouldn't generate enough traffic to justify larger planes.
But by pushing its international Boeing Co. 757s to nearly the limit of their roughly 4,000-nautical-mile range, United is leaving little room for error when stiff winds increase the amount of fuel the planes' twin engines burn.
Last month, United said, its 169-seat 757s had to stop 43 times to refuel out of nearly 1,100 flights headed to the U.S. A year earlier, there were only 12 unscheduled stops on roughly the same volume of 757 flights.
These are the flights to avoid:
- Stuttgart-Newark
- Paris-Washington Dulles
- Stockholm-Newark
- Barcelona-Newark.
See WSJ story below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories
Might need a WSJ account to view full story so here is an excerpt:
Dozens of Continental Airlines flights to the East Coast from Europe have been forced to make unexpected stops in Canada and elsewhere to take on fuel after running into unusually strong headwinds over the Atlantic Ocean.
The stops, which have caused delays and inconvenience for thousands of passengers in recent weeks, are partly the result of a decision by United Continental Holdings Inc., the world's largest airline, to use smaller jets on a growing number of long, trans-Atlantic routes.
United's strategy works when the winds are calm, and it allows the airline to operate less expensive aircraft with fewer cabin-crew members to an array of European cities that wouldn't generate enough traffic to justify larger planes.
But by pushing its international Boeing Co. 757s to nearly the limit of their roughly 4,000-nautical-mile range, United is leaving little room for error when stiff winds increase the amount of fuel the planes' twin engines burn.
Last month, United said, its 169-seat 757s had to stop 43 times to refuel out of nearly 1,100 flights headed to the U.S. A year earlier, there were only 12 unscheduled stops on roughly the same volume of 757 flights.