United is good. It's going to be OK CO peeps.
May 7, 2010, 8:52 pm
#46
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, UA 1.56MM (fmr UA1K)
Posts: 5,772
May 7, 2010, 8:57 pm
#47
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, UA 1.56MM (fmr UA1K)
Posts: 5,772
And on top of it... I don't think that Air New Zealand is known for it's generous levels of standard award availability in C on long-haul transoceanic flights....
May 7, 2010, 9:38 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MLB, SMF, and many points in between
Programs: Back to UA with a bit of Hyatt and some Marriott
Posts: 3,476
I got exactly the dates, times, and flights I wanted for those trips. I have some more trips booked involving AC (J), TK (C), LH (C), and another LH (F). All with UA miles, all as desired. I've also flown on a number of UA awards on partners, most recently OZ (C), NH (C), LH (F), and AC (J). All booked as desired with UA miles.
I've encountered *net blocking, and it's impacted maybe 5% of my award needs, if that.
I think those not familiar with *net blocking may not really understand how it works.
UA doesn't wholesale block an entire carrier or route. It's a budgetary thing -- when the monthly/quarterly/etc. totals of outflows to a specific carrier start approaching or exceeding budget, they filter some of that carrier's flights for a period so that they reduce their outflows to that carrier.
That filtering may last a couple of days, a couple of weeks, or a couple of months. It may be on a significant number of that carrier's routes, or it may be on just a handful. You never know.
The vast majority of the time, the partner award you want will be available to you.
The term I use to describe it is "nuisance." It's annoying, it gets in the way on occasion, but it's not the end of the world. The notion that you can't use UA miles on partners, that's way off.
I've encountered *net blocking, and it's impacted maybe 5% of my award needs, if that.
I think those not familiar with *net blocking may not really understand how it works.
UA doesn't wholesale block an entire carrier or route. It's a budgetary thing -- when the monthly/quarterly/etc. totals of outflows to a specific carrier start approaching or exceeding budget, they filter some of that carrier's flights for a period so that they reduce their outflows to that carrier.
That filtering may last a couple of days, a couple of weeks, or a couple of months. It may be on a significant number of that carrier's routes, or it may be on just a handful. You never know.
The vast majority of the time, the partner award you want will be available to you.
The term I use to describe it is "nuisance." It's annoying, it gets in the way on occasion, but it's not the end of the world. The notion that you can't use UA miles on partners, that's way off.
Unfortunately it's become the go-to
target anytime someone can't get exactly the award they want.IME it's much more common that the problem with getting the date-time-cabin one wants on a particular route is that the operating carrier either doesn't have award seats available or doesn't have them available for *A partners--that's a global problem, not a blocking problem.
It might help CO folks to think of *net blocking like the EUA glitches. It's not very common and doesn't affect anyone as much as you would think from reading FT, but it's a convenient scapegoat for FT
anytime a poster doesn't get exactly what they want. So the biggest issue with NZ is that the awards just aren't there. But, if you start from the assumption that UA is blocking and then are told 330 days out that there are no front-cabin awards on NZ, it's easy to assume that you're being blocked without really understanding what's going on.
SQ is another great example of this. They don't do awards at all on some flights and are conservative with releases on others. So what seems like blocking is often just SQ not allowing awards.
May 7, 2010, 9:47 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,072
Sad part is that the poster who incorrectly blamed *net blocking was a 20,000-post FT member, who is otherwise usually quite credible.
May 7, 2010, 9:49 pm
#50
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSE
Programs: BA Silver, TK Elite, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 466
EUA glitches, on the other hand, really are just conjecture. None of us really know if EUA is releasing inventory and processing upgrades the way it should be.
Last edited by PeaSouper; May 7, 2010 at 9:50 pm Reason: elaboration
May 7, 2010, 9:56 pm
#51
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,072
Well, it does seem like we would have pretty good visibility into differentiating between *net blocking and actual inventory unavailability by the operating carrier. If an award shows up on, say, KVS, or another *A carrier's online booking tool, but UA tells us that it's not available, is there any possible explanation other than that UA is blocking us?
It's actually easier than that. If the flight is blocked, it doesn't even show up on the agent's screen. It's not like it's there with no space, it just plain doesn't show up for the agent.
As for external verification, it depends on the reliability of the alternate tool. I think ANA is probably the most reliable. If it's on ANA and UA can't see it, it's probably blocked. I have experienced, however, on two occasions, flights that ANA showed as not available, but UA actually had it (reverse blocking?) and managed to book and ticket them. Both were FRA-SFO in F on LH, so even the best tools aren't the most reliable.
May 8, 2010, 7:38 am
#52
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,039
In defense of UA there are things that CO does to effectively "block" some of their routes. Try booking an award seat on CO to EYW using UA miles. It shows as available to folks with CO miles, but simply cannot be booked using UA or other *A miles. The reason CO gives: The CO express carrier (Gulfstream) for the EYW flights doesn't "participate". You never find that sort of bunk on any route flown by a UA express carrier.
Last edited by PHLGovFlyer; May 8, 2010 at 7:51 am
May 8, 2010, 11:57 am
#53
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,472
In defense of UA there are things that CO does to effectively "block" some of their routes. Try booking an award seat on CO to EYW using UA miles. It shows as available to folks with CO miles, but simply cannot be booked using UA or other *A miles. The reason CO gives: The CO express carrier (Gulfstream) for the EYW flights doesn't "participate". You never find that sort of bunk on any route flown by a UA express carrier.
Not too long ago (well, maybe 10 years or so) Gulfstream was a UA partner.
May 8, 2010, 3:17 pm
#54
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,039
It's not CO Express, but rather CO Connection, which operates under an entirely different agreement with CO. All COEx flights are eligible for UA accrue/redeem. CO Connection flights are only eligible for UA accrual.
Not too long ago (well, maybe 10 years or so) Gulfstream was a UA partner.
Not too long ago (well, maybe 10 years or so) Gulfstream was a UA partner.
May 8, 2010, 7:05 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Liberty Visual to 27L at PHL. Stranger in a strange land - a Devils fan in Flyers country.
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Posts: 24,061
May 8, 2010, 10:22 pm
#57
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: CLE,OH
Programs: UA 1K 3MM, AA Plat, F9 Elite, the later two thanks to Jeff $, HHdia, Mgold, WynDia, Choicepl, IHGDia
Posts: 1,405
The merger will be a success or failure based on upper management. Mainly Jeff. Sadly I have no appreciation for any changes he has made to CO thus far (merger included). I enjoy UA and appreciate CO, but do not see anything good coming from a merger. CO has had a great deal of time to weed out any bad attitudes that resulted from mergers. Now the roller coaster can start all over again.
May 9, 2010, 8:11 am
#58
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,039
In defense of UA there are things that CO does to effectively "block" some of their routes. Try booking an award seat on CO to EYW using UA miles. It shows as available to folks with CO miles, but simply cannot be booked using UA or other *A miles. The reason CO gives: The CO express carrier (Gulfstream) for the EYW flights doesn't "participate". You never find that sort of bunk on any route flown by a UA express carrier.
Last edited by PHLGovFlyer; May 9, 2010 at 8:18 am
May 9, 2010, 1:12 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: PVG
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 319
This is a great example. The biggest problem with NZ awards is that NZ is incredibly stingy with front-cabin award space until very close in. If you have an availability tool, keep an eye on NZ award availability for its own fliers from start of schedule until flight time. You'll find that they rarely release anything until 60 days, 30 days or even less out. And then they may/may not release it to the alliance.
So the biggest issue with NZ is that the awards just aren't there. But, if you start from the assumption that UA is blocking and then are told 330 days out that there are no front-cabin awards on NZ, it's easy to assume that you're being blocked without really understanding what's going on.
SQ is another great example of this. They don't do awards at all on some flights and are conservative with releases on others. So what seems like blocking is often just SQ not allowing awards.
So the biggest issue with NZ is that the awards just aren't there. But, if you start from the assumption that UA is blocking and then are told 330 days out that there are no front-cabin awards on NZ, it's easy to assume that you're being blocked without really understanding what's going on.
SQ is another great example of this. They don't do awards at all on some flights and are conservative with releases on others. So what seems like blocking is often just SQ not allowing awards.
Also to add, SQ adds a surcharge to flights operated by certain aircraft. Not sure how it's treated on award travel, but it's definitely applicable to paid RTW or other Star Alliance fare products. I wouldn't be surprised if these fees also applied to award travel, or award inventory is really restricted on these flights (but not sure from experience).
From www.staralliance.com
A Singapore Airlines Business Class surcharge is applicable for passengers booked in a reduced Business Class (D Class) on Airbus A380, Boeing B773ER or Airbus A340-500 and will be levied on Business Class Round the World passengers travelling on Singapore Airlines Boeing B773ER, Airbus A380 or Airbus A345.
Route between Surcharge per sector
Singapore and San Francisco / Houston 600 USD
Singapore and Los Angeles / New York 900 USD
Seoul and San Francisco 500 USD
Hong Kong and San Francisco 500 USD
Moscow and Houston 500 USD
Singapore and Paris / Milan / Barcelona / Zurich / Frankfurt / London / Moscow 500 USD
Singapore and Delhi / Mumbai 300 USD
Singapore and Hong Kong / Beijing 300 USD
Singapore and Tokyo / Seoul 300 USD
Singapore and Auckland / Melbourne / Sydney 400 USD
The other thing I might add that I've really appreciated about UA's program is the lack of close-in ticketing fees. This was added but then dropped again recently. For me, this is just really customer-friendly. It's been a big benefit to be able to book tickets at the last minute, that are treated just like full-fare Y, for just $20 or so in taxes/fees.
I am cautiously optimistic about UA and CO coming together. I've relied on UA's routes to Asia in the past, enjoy E+ a lot, look forward to more options to/from Europe in the future because of CO, and hope all of the call centers get moved back onshore.
May 9, 2010, 3:22 pm
#60
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 231
I am chiming in. I am both ExPlat and 1K. I used most of the major airlines worldwide. I do use Bus. class sometimes but when jumping from one country to another I use coach or try for upgrade. In my opinion UAL is on par with any of the airlines in the world overall (yes,some airlines have better entertainment sometimes but better food and other things are debatable depending on preference). I also think that on average UAL is better then AA.
I have booked UAL award travel for both myself as well as quite a few other people and not once have I had a problem getting the route I wanted. I am amazed at all the bashing UAL gets in comparison with some of the other airlines that people on FT love.
I think the merger will be negative if Continental influence is predominant otherwise I think if it is done right we will get the same airline with more route choices.
I am not trying to encourage anyone to come over to UA for anyone not flying UA gets me an opportunity for an empty seat next to me (smile).
I have booked UAL award travel for both myself as well as quite a few other people and not once have I had a problem getting the route I wanted. I am amazed at all the bashing UAL gets in comparison with some of the other airlines that people on FT love.
I think the merger will be negative if Continental influence is predominant otherwise I think if it is done right we will get the same airline with more route choices.
I am not trying to encourage anyone to come over to UA for anyone not flying UA gets me an opportunity for an empty seat next to me (smile).