BlondyFA

How would you know if there were FAM's on board? It's not like they wear a name tag.

bocastephen

Actually many of them do - it's their dress, appearance, demeanor and where they sit and how they interact. I'd hope you realize how easy it is to spot them - if you think they're invisible to much of the flying public, that's pretty naive.

mdjtlj

All of this contrasts with my flight of Monday 15 Jan IAH-SFO, where we were told initially our route and then on a couple of occasions the specific cities were were currently over (and no, these were not the departure and arrival cities).

I personally like being told this information, it puts the magic back into flight. How interesting it is to think that you are going from one place to another which is far away, all in one sitting.....

As for the security concerns, it is nonsense to think that this matters. If you are going to be blown up, does it matter if the bad guy knows you're going over a specific city or not? If he doesn't know where you specifically are, my guess is that he's still going to blow you up.... that is the terror is terrorism. You can choose to let them win by not travelling, or you can continue on with your life, it is your choice. But not disclosing our route will stop nothing.

Bonehead

Maybe they simply hadn't yet decided on which routing they were going to take when the Captain made the announcement.

controller1

And of course, them being escorted onto the plane prior to everyone's boarding (including pre-boarding) certainly doesn't help!

bocastephen

I've tracked some through the 'exit' security lane onto my flight, and even seen them do the 'crew' introductions after everyone boarded.

Even when their administrative behavior isn't so obvious (and their *cough* management has been trying to scale back on that), everything else about them, is. Only the former FAA-owned FAMs seem capable of truly blending in.

The Capt was quite adamant about 'not being allowed' to disclose the route of flight, so it's not like he didn't already know it - we were already 20 minutes underway, so if he didn't know the route he filed with ATC at that point, I'd be pretty worried

Today's 1766 hasn't departed yet, but they filed the same route as yesterday - SUMMA7 SUMMA BKE GLENO 3500N 10100W MQP RIICE2. It's not like these things are closely guarded secrets.

Flying over Salt Lake is usually an obvious clue.

RockoHorse

Perhaps the captain thought it is a dumb rule and decided to share his frustration with the passengers by stating that he is not allowed to share the routing?

I can't remember the details but we were stuck somewhere and the pilot would make frequent announcements indicating that he had as much clue as we did about what was going on, though in that case his frustration was clearly stated.

doobierw

Funny.... this post starts around midnight.

By noon, there is a 're-iteration' of policy in this regard posted to all pilots via company bulletin. A topic which hasn't been really updated for nearly six weeks.

I've pretty much gone the route of extreme safety: "Ladies and gentleman we'll be flying today from Seattle to Houston. Although that large mountain just after departure looks like Mt. Rainier, there exists a strong possibility it is indeed Mt. Everest. The large river shortly thereafter is most likely the Nile, while the large snow covered mountain range mid-flight is quite possibly the Alps......If we somehow fall asleep doing our bidding, the flight attendants have been instructed to wake us up just past Houston as we fly over the Sea of Japan......"

BlondyFA

Hmmmm...how do they dress? So you can spot one a mile away. Yep..you're good. Naive? Me? Nah....just been flying for a living for a really long time. You may think you know everything....but it's obvious you don't.

bocastephen

Does the policy state you cannot disclose the route of flight, or say something more like "you can discuss key scenic points of interest for the entertainment of passengers, but do not disclose the specific routing in a point-to-point description, lest there be another underwear bomber on board who was trained to explode their pants the very moment we cross the Texas Panhandle because they don't know how to use a GPS and have no idea that flight routings are easily available from another of sources on the Internet."

doobierw

You know, I'd love to share some details of the policy with the board here, but the bulletin is labeled "Sensitive Security Material" (or something to that nature), and it really doesn't specify which of the material is sensitive.

Accordingly, I have to treat the entire thing as sensitive material and not divulge it. We have similar policies with respect to DCA flying, FAMs, etc.

When the policy first came out we couldn't discuss anything with respect to routes (the initial kneejerk reaction). Within about a two week period, it went through about five separate revisions. I would submit to you that some of our aircrew are still on various renditions of versions 1 through 4.

DRW

MrChu

Next time you come into my pharmacy I just won't be able to fill the prescription for the new medication that was approved last month since according to you "with the ever changing stream of crap that gets thrown at us, someone gets confused or left behind."

I'm sure that's gonna go well with you and you will be ready to put that lawsuit on me for your suffering etc., eh?

Professionals need to keep up or they lose their license!

bocastephen

I guess you need to spend more time over at TS/S. I've been flying a good long time as well, probably as long as you.

You and I both know that the majority of FAMs are easy to spot even you don't want to admit it here for some odd reason. We have FAMs who post over at TS/S who have admitted how easy it is to spot them and kept us informed about changes to dress and demeanor that were designed to make detection harder - but certainly not enough to eliminate the obvious.

When an athletic, white, mid-30s male is sitting in a FC aisle seat (not bulkhead) who declines meal service and spends the flight sitting upright and tapping on their PDA and looks up every time someone walks towards the forward galley/lav and who puts down the PDA and pays close attention while FD crew are moving in and out for their potty break, I have a pretty good clue at hand who that is.

Sometimes they just make it too easy - like openly discussing their credentials and location of 'their partner' with the FD crew in a loud voice right before pushback (while wearing an obnoxiously loud Aloha shirt), then realizing their stupidity, sitting perfectly upright and staring ahead for the entire flight.

We can see who is already seated before boarding, we can see who in plain clothes visits the flight deck before departure and we can see who is having a conversation with crew members away from the gate area before they get to the aircraft.

The cat is out of the bag, and has been so for many years. Expect things to get a lot worse as the order went out to hire more FAMs, and given the current management team and working environment, they will need to start scraping the bottom of the hiring barrel to fill the quota.

To the topic at hand, the whole 'don't disclose the route of flight or our position' was one of the absolute stupidest ideas the TSA braintrust ever conjured up, especially for domestic flights where often one only needs to look out the window or use a simple rough guess of Distance=Speed x Time while factoring in their general direction to figure out where they are.

bocastephen

As they are with the DCA rules, and some of your colleagues never got the memo about how not to converse with FAMs

So I'll assume there is a memo that offers 'guidance' on this subject and we'll leave it at that, since it's probably CO ops deciding for themselves what to do.

I will suggest that crews just refrain from mentioning the route instead of saying they can't disclose it - unless that was some sort of tongue-in-cheek commentary.

At least we can still use a GPS and take photos out the window without someone freaking out and having a panic attack, unlike some UA crew members.

channa

You forgot the part about having a buzz-cut and drinking Diet Coke.