Skye1... didn't knwo you kept your therapist license current. I may have to call you on that if I ever plan a CMD4.

FYI: Should I do a Catman do I would EXPECT You at least at an attendee. Since the SOupe Do is NOT CMD4. (Although you are welcome to join us)

These Soup DOs are, at least, easy to plan:

*Pick a date.
*Pick Da Place
*Wait for FT-ers to confirm.

I would also attend an STL DO if ever put together. Note this well. Only thing stopping me would be 20 or more Cat clients that weekend.

Give it a shot STl folk and if you need advise I'm happy to help out.

I'm sure you'd be gladly taken up on that. So far, our "strategy" (whether planned or it's just happened that way) has been to build up a good network of local FTers first, and Sonora, GregL, AviationKiwi, Rosso, Scoow, & others are uber-huge-ly to thank for that. And, I think we've done well at gathering the troops whenever an FTer is in town and wants to meet up with other FTers....we'll gladly all get together & join them.

So far, most of us have spent no small number of weekends this past year with all of our own individual flying...especially since several have caught the EXP and or Plat bug and have been mileage-running & segment running. How much do you ask? If it's any indication, the bartenders at the STL A/C know all of us by name, and can even tell us about where we've gone on our trips, they've gotten to know us that well. .

With a solid network of locals in place, "Do" planning is on the horizon. We've got it in our sights, and I'm sure a "Loo Do" will be coming to a C-Buzz forum near you in the future...possibly in conjunction w/ a Cardinals game, possibly in conjunction with The Great Forest Park Balloon Race, possibly just to give everyone an excuse to try Ted Drewes.

Sadly, the majority of FTers are a well-meaning lot, and will not take the proper steps necessary to rectify such situations. Which is to make them public.

Simply put: if I organized an FT event, and somebody stiffed me or made a dramatic horse's rear of themselves about issues such as posted financial arrangements or not getting their way about something ridiculous, I would post it publically on the recap of the event in the thread.

While Randy has set the policy that all Community-posted events are open to all, I suspect that he did not intend for that policy to shield people from trying to scam the membership.

Those of you who host events, encounter situations such as on the previous pages, and do not say anything in public.... you're enabling these creatures. While this is probably not the time to retroactively call out people (especially if it turns out to be a small set of repeat offenders who would then spend the next five pages on their high horses pretending to defend themselves....), I would encourage all organizers of large events to be clear about their intentions to publicize such nonsense.

If nothing else, most of us can usually use a good laugh during the work day.

I know this thread has generated a lot of offline conversations (and yes good laughs) and ElmhurstNick is right, no one wants to go public about the offender(s) and be accused of personal attacks. From what I gather, one of the serial offenders has even posted advice on dealing with offenders in this thread, so they likely have no idea just how rude & tacky they are.

I'm not sure why someone doesn't just settle it via PM then? It seems counterproductive to keep talking about it in public.

That being said, I can only admire those that take on the organization of these huge DO's. I've had a great time at a few of them and am in awe at how smoothly a lot of these events usually go. It would certainly be sad to see the people with the guts to put together these events retire or otherwise stop due to the actions of a few.

We've taken steps to immortalize this outstanding post from skye1.

It can now be found in the The Definitive CommunityBuzz! Thread Directory which is a sticky in the CommunityBuzz! Forum.


It was added to an already existing thread link that described what a DO was all about. You can access this post from skye1 by clicking on the "here" link above.

A couple of things...

No one takes on the responsibilities of organizing a Do (whether large or small), thinking they might get stiffed on bills, or really thinking they'll get too many whiners. And presumably no one attends a Do thinking they'll stiff the organizer. Hopefully not anyway! Well, the whining - who knows on that one, although it's easy to do when one isn't the organizer, but one would hope there wouldn't be too much.

I think the Current Do organizers get more savvy & post upfront the parameters as Dos go on (I know I have), and I would encourage those who are considering organizing Dos to do the same. And remind everyone of the parameters, even if it's as simple as don't forget tax & tip. That one I think needs to be hit on the head a # of times.

But the do you publicly 'out' those who stiffed do organizers or not is an interesting question. I know of one thread where it was done, but not too many others.

And also along that line, if someone has flat out stiffed another person or organizer, or if they committed to attend an event where a nominal fee was being required to attend & then didn't show, but the organizer had to shell out some $$ - should they actually be allowed to attend a Do an organizer is organizing until they paid up for the last one?

At last year's LHR MegaDo I had a hotel ressie for the stay, but someone else had a cheaper rate for a dif hotel on the last night & I agree to take it over to save some $$. But then I got a call from another FTer who needed a room, and I agreed to stick w/ mine & let them have it w/ the understanding - up front - that they owed the fee to the original person (it had been a prepaid stay). I even walked over from my hotel to that one to check them in. They agreed & then never paid the person, despite repeated PMs. The original FTer asked me to pay up since the original agreement was w/ me, so I paid him the hotel fee & then called/PMed the person who first did 'the check is in the mail' thing (obviously a lie) and then just quit responding. So I'm out the $$ for someone else's hotel stay.

Let's say I organize another Do. Should that LHR MegaDo person be allowed to attend w/o paying me the amount they stiffed me? After all, FT's policy is open to all. And what if they're attending a Do that someone else is organizing? How do I say don't let them attend/they stiffed me, given it's not my Do. BTW - I'm deliberately not putting the FTers name here, but it's an example.

How does stuff like this get handled? Thoughts, or any policies to be aware of?

Or, when I organized the LAX Day After Freddies events, culminating in a party at my place & where I ordered food/booze based on the # of attendees, it had been agreed in advance we'd all toss in "X" $$ (I figured out the bill & divied it by # of folk who had rsvp'd to come up w/ the X). A # didn't show & the ones who did tossed in their original x (and some did a bit extra), but I was out $$ due to the no-shows. If I did that event again, if the folk who were no-shows (and didn't even post on the thread no-shows) do I say pay up from last time in order to attend or do I out them on a thread?

My inclination is no and I'm chalking it up as a learning experience - but in the future - should the policy be if you rsvp for something that the host has to front $$ on (whether food for a party, or tickets to an event, or a deposit on a venue), it's understood that you owe the $$ anyway as a good FTer even if you don't show?

And it should go w/o saying, but one that seems to crop up a lot, folk - don't forget tax & tip/service charge (ie, figure out your subtotal & then add T/T). And don't get mad/throw a fit if YOUR mileage-earning cc can't be used. If you're talking large groups, most places are not going to allow that many cc's & the unofficial policy is to let the FT host put it on theirs (unless they cede that bennie to others) for the trouble of organizing the thing. One other suggestion - even if you've tossed in 'your share', don't leave until the organizer is sure the bill is square. It's just common courtesy. I know I've gotten stuck w/ bills (at London exchange rates too) where folk left their share & then left the restaurant, and we came up short but because folk had gone didn't really know who had shorted the bill. I've also seen that happen domestically at other people's dos.

So the outing & how to handle stiffers are interesting questions. Other's thoughts?

BTW - glad the 4 Do descriptions have been made into a sticky.

Cheers.

One positive thing should be said on the subject of those who short-change the host. IME there are generally one or a few generous Flyertalkers who pitch in extra to make up for those who didn't.

Agree. I was just thinking of editing my post above to mention that, as there have been times when other generous FTers have tossed in to either make up the difference, or help make up part of the difference.

BTW - in dinner situations it's usually a tad harder to figure out who 'shorted' when there are a lot of attendees & they've left, so no 'outing' or 'banning' there.

But would be interesting to get people's thoughts on the outing or allowing to attend events when the specific people are known. And yes I know who all the folk are in my 2 examples above, but I'm not going to out them now. It's to set up the examples & ask for other's thoughts or knowledge of policies (if any).

Cheers.

In one case, I had two FTers who I had to restrain from over-making-up the difference and leaving a tip nearly as big as the bill.

There's a little bit of everything on FT. :)

The tip thing is quite interesting to me as well. It seems somewhat of a grey/gray area where there can be significant cultural differences as well.

What if some attendees want the tip to be atleast 20% while others think that 10% is more than enough? And isn't it an issue for the organiser to then have to force-choose one of the two options and then, perhaps incorrectly, get perceived as either too stingy or over-generous?

I have to say that this is probably the best thread I have ever read on FT - perhaps because it is close to home. Been through the highs and lows. Had the strops thrown at me. Even got stiffed. Also, had other FTers make up the difference without prompting. Paid my way as Doo organiser. Hardly paid for a beer, mind you. :cool: Made some amazing friends. Been to some cool places. Done my bit for the community and the community has paid me back more that I could have hoped for.

At other Doos, I've seen the same take place. Watched the politics. Watched others avoid the politics. Watched still others oblivious to the politics. In fact, reading through this thread it is clear that some of the cracks in other Doos are still quite raw for some people. Equally clear is that misunderstandings can happen easily - both at Doos, and in discussing them.

Just ordinary life, eh?

All boils down to respect and dignity, for me. Keep the first for others and you'll keep the second for yourself. People sense this in others and are attracted to it. Be an @$$h0le and guess what...

Quite agree w/ GoldCircle above, but didn't want to do the full quote thing.

BTW - I probably wouldn't have mentioned the 2 examples in detail a few posts above (alluded to them in an earlier post w/o details, as part of the bad part of the good & the bad), but the previous posts by others re: 'outing' the folk who short-change or stiffed the group and/or organizer got me thinking about the various circumstances in general & what do you do for future ones. I know what I'll do in future in situations like that, but for everyone else...

Do you:

a) out them (hadn't occurred to me before & probably not something I'd do publicly), or
b) do you say pay up before they can attend another (and does FT policy even allow that, or would it given the circumstances), or
c) do you set up a prepay rule?

For me I've enjoyed all the Dos I've attended and/or organized, good & even those w/ hiccups, and when somewhat unfortunate things like stiffing or inadvertent stiffing come up I just use them as an opportunity to learn to make the future ones better.

And sometimes you just have to learn how to shrug it off anyway.

Had a group of 36 in LON one time, and (learning from the previous year when everyone passed the bill from one to the other & we came up 100GBP short, which I covered) made arrangements w/ the restaurant & the FTers to do the bills for groups of 4, figuring a foursome could easily sort out a bill - and even got the restaurant to agree to do individual cc's!

Skye1, alanw, & fredmartens & I were the 4-some at the end of the table, & we ended up ordering an extra bottle of wine to drink whilst the various other 4-somes sorted out their bills, as it was taking a while (we sorted out ours in about 30 seconds - it was called divide by 4 LOL). I wandered down the long table to see how things were going & found one 4-some arguing over who had the veggies/should pay for them!!!! :eek:

At that point you just have to say, ya' know I set it up as best I could, good luck, and go back & finish your drink ;) :D

Cheers.

People "forgetting" to pay... it happened at the CMD2 and several friends had to pitch in to make up the difference.

Lesson learned... at the CMD3... ALL ATTENDEES had to pay in advance either by check or PayPal. Basically it was Pay or No Play. Everything worked out great and I got a ton of Diners Club points to book. I thank a certain Flyertalker who stepped in and guided me not to repeat past mistakes.

So if it's going to be a big event.. .prepay is the way.

At my Soup Dos if someoen doesn't pay they will be guided by the manager to wash a LOT of soup bowls. ;) Just kidding!!!

Reading back on Skye1's now inmortal review of DOs... there's one point that struck me on repeated reading... the DO organizer screaming in tehir hotel room about stuff.

Well, that was me... at CMD3. My roomie had to talk to me down and take me out for a walk to the Brooklyn Bridge to get away from it all. The rules: No Do talk, NO flyertalker talk... just walk to Brooklyn nad have cheesecake at Juniors!

Maybe that's another tip... the afternoon before the big main event just disappear with someone and NOT think of Dos or Flyertalk or travel or anything. That saved me from a nervous breakdown.

Congrats Skye1 on FT "inmortality." :)

Excellent advice and something often overlooked. ^^

Last night's dinner with ten non-FT friends of 20 years we came up short for the first time. Gracious person-in-charge-with-calculator tossed in the difference realizing someone just mistook the denominations on their currency. Not worth making an issue. You can't do this with regular/larger groups.

FTers who regularly stiff organizers? Firing squad at sunrise isn't practical, because some of us are still in the bars , but....

1. Small-event organizer has to have a private word with person-who-does-not-pay-fair-share. Public outing is bad. Very bad. Most of you know who the regulars are. As a single traveler, I try to overpay by 10-20% beyond tax, tip, wine, and meal, so I don't leave an old-lady cheapass rep behind me. (Hope it's working. If it isn't, PM me.)

2. Large event probably needs to use some service like EventBrite. It's unfortunate if you pay for xxx Euros and then can't attend, and I have have had that happen, AND TRAVEL INSURANCE WILL NOT COVER, but the organizer shouldn't have to pay either.

3. Some of the larger events don't have any leeway built in with the restaurants. In other words, the organizers are pushing to get the required 40 covers for a certain price, and they only get 38. Excellent, but if only 32 actually pay, disasterous.

4. We're NOT pros! Doing our best to have a good time for everyone. Appreciate what you are offered, enjoy it, and pay compliments and full price GDMIT!