My flight has departed...
 

After a day and some prayer, I'm not coming here anymore.

I had a battle with the moral police and even though it was called a 'truce' by FlyerTalk management, it's easy to see where this group is heading, and I don't want to be a part of it.

Low Fare searches (free) are ending, as I'm getting even busier with a project I'm working on (most of you will hear about it, but maybe not my specific involvements). I will continue the Low Fare Searches through the end of the subscription period for PAID subscribers. I will not sell or distribute the mailing list, which totals over 400 now and reached 49 cities.

In regards to Morals and Ethics on this board, I ask everyone to stop and take a look at their lives and what they let slide. I can tell you from the pictures and stories of FlyerTalk DOs, they are far from morally and ethically proper. Yet I get crucified for making a regional joke about two ethnic groups and their power struggle.

Yes it was wrong. I should have worded it differently.

but a poster over reacted and failed to realize that I had requested the threads to be deleted, even though I flat out told him in an e-mail.

I did not get suspended by Randy, but a very open and conversant e-mail. I applaud Randy for the way he managed it... he seems to have mastered Human Relations, something I wish I could do.

Las Vegas 'DO' is still on, but unfortunately, there is no drink-a-thon, so I don't think it qualifies to be a 'DO'... if I meet Flyertalkers, I'd rather meet them sober.

I've made a lot of friends here and will vow to help them in any way I can, despite my job, as that's what friends do. I'll also promise to keep in contact with them.

-nate
(only 8 posts shy of 1000, which will never be reached)

Nate, thank you for your post.

Yes, you worded it wrong, but I do have an inkling of where you were coming from.

I grew up (in part) in Southern Florida and am "anti-nothing". I do, however, remember back in the early 60s, living in South Florida. I was asked nearly daily if I were Jewish or Cuban. I guess I looked too exotic to some people to be a "regular American" (whatever Archy Bunker thought that was), go figure.

I guess my looks must have "gone south" over the years because now in South Florida everyone just assumes I am Cuban and speaks to me in Spanish. I wonder if they assume Hunki is Jewish---they always speak to him in English.

Got to not take any of this too seriously.

I've never met you Nate. I've disagreed with you on a few issues. We don't seem to have much in common other than an interest in travel -- but you are still a part of the Flyertalk family. I hope you reconsider you decision to leave.

For the record: eastwest is aware of what went on in the "South Florida" threads and while he won't defend Nate's choice of words, he doesn't judge Nate to have meant anything harmful and hopes that cool heads prevail.

I'm sorry but I'm a bit puzzled. What is not to take seriously here? The original derogatory remarks towards Cubans and Jews? What of the subsequent remarks towards the family member of a FT member?

Seemingly every post of Nate on the matter has added to his apology additional insulting remarks.

I agree that there is much (reported) behavior at FT events I find juvenile and in poor taste -- however using that as some sort of excuse really doesn't do it, imo.

I have no comment on the Florida Jewish or Cuban or "condo Nazi" commentaries as I really do not know what it was all about to be honest.

What I did personally find over the top was Nate's final post here about FT events - and one sentence in particular is surely offensive and VERY tasteless to many here? It is to me anyway and I do hope it is edited by Nate or that Forum's Moderator. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

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~ Glen ~

I think Nate did the right thing by 'moving on'.

Dan

It's all not to take seriously here. This is a bulletin board and we will never meet but a small percentage of its inhabitants and then will really only care about the opinions of a small handful of them. People on FT make remarks that I find offensive every day--heck some of them even appear to be intended as direct insults to me, by people I don't even know. Go figure. Their posts don't change my life so why on earth would I waste energy getting upset about them?

There are some people here who matter a great deal to me. I care about them and their opinions. The rest of it is all just.............the rest of it.

Nate has chosen to leave. Let us not let his leaving create divisions among us.

Not having the way with words that Punki has http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif , and not having seen the original posts ( which I think is probably just as well) - I would hate to see the fall out of his leaving create more divisions than his original posts did

jan_az,

Eloquence has nothing to do with this. There is a very clear double standard amongst certain FT cliques. At times, they claim that this is just a BB. Other times, they scream bloody murder at what they perceive to be critisism.

You cannot have it both ways. Either this is a "Community", or it is JAIBB. It cannot be both.

I saw the original remarks. I can see how they would have been offensive to some. Trying to claim that it just does not matter is burying ones head in the sand.

CameraGuy, I read Jan_AZ's post differently. She avoided taking a stand on Nate's post, which she had not seen. Rather, she was suggesting that we who remain not begin to battle among ourselves. It would be a shame if Nate's exit causes us to bicker amongst ourselves since we no longer have the obvious target.

I guess I should have been clearer. My bad.

I was not replying so much to Jan's post as to her agreeing with the one above.

My comments about burying ones head in the sand are directed at the IJAIBB crowd.

The current state of affairs is that you can be a narracistic sociopath, but so long as you don't say the wrong thing to wrong (or right, depending on your point of view), then you're safe.

In fact so long as you remember which side of your mouth to speak out of to which people, you can be regarded as witty and clever, with a biting wit.

What he said was clearly wrong. The reaction to it speaks volumes. People (rightfully) stood up and said, "I don't think this is appropriate."

Yet when some members of this community load up the nepalm and launch attacks on individuals, there is a collective averting of eyes and sitting on hands that is staggering to behold.

They'll agree over cocktails that the person may have overreacted in his name-calling, but engage in moral relativism which enables the toxicity to continue. Such logic leads us to conclude that we must give drunk drivers a higher blood alcohol threshold because they NEED to drink because of the stress from their previous convictions.

Punki: Like anything else it depends on the context.

We should always maintain perspective. But anti-social behavior is anti-social behavior - the fact that you are reading it does not excuse it. When hurtful things are said, it does need to be taken seriously.

Did UAPremierExec cross the line? Yes. People were right to tell him they though he had. I just hope these same people are consistent elsewhere on FT, and that this just wasn't a rush to indignance to claim the moral high ground.

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

Ok - my 2 cents. I think that UAPremExec's original post was very inappropriate. I can understand some of the reaction that was generated by certain individuals. That being said, I'm sure all of us are guilty of non-PC sayings, either as a joke or seriously, about "groups" of people. However, that kind of behavior is not acceptable in a public forum such as FT. I think that UAPremExec's subsequent posts did exacerbate the situation. We all need to accept his decision to leave FT and not create any further divisions amongst the rest of us.

Let's review:

1. Somebody made a post that some thought was inappropriate.
2. He too came to the conclusion that it was inappropriate.
3. He either edited it and/or caused a moderator to edit it.
4. He apologized. (There is nothing to be gained by analyzing the quality of that apology.)
5. He left the board.

So he's gone. Should we form a posse and go find him and rip out all his toenails?

It's over already.

peteropny: I want to preface my remarks by saying that this is not directed to you personally. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't think anything he said created division. For one, these divisions are already in place. Second, I don't think there is much disagreement that what was said was inappropriate.

I think the discussions at this point are more related to the standards which we are accepting in this community.

For some, it seems OK to post snotty, incindary and personal attacks, but if someone were to say, "You know how stubborn those <fill in race/gender> can be" suddenly the indignant brigade must be mobilized.

Is it wrong to disparage a group based on race, sexual orientation, faith, marital status, hair color, shoe size or choice of boxer vs. briefs? Of course.

Why then is it acceptable for to sit idly by when engage in personal disparaging remarks, especially when what triggered it was not a something as important as race, sexual orientation, faith, etc. but is instead over something as potentially earth-shattering as posting in the wrong form?

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."