Paying fair at FT get togethers
 

I have attended a lot of FT parties and there have from time to time been some slightly (to more intensely) stressful moments surrounding payment of the group bill.

There have been too many instances where an organizer has been stuck with a large balance or a too large balance has been divided among three or four good guys at the end, while other skip out with paying less than their share.

I think it would be a good idea to establish some guidlines so that these stresses are removed from what are otherwise just plain great times.

Obviously, the best bet is for the organizer to get payment before the event, but for those times where that doesn't work out, what good suggestions do you all have?

We are working towards advance payment for the dinners in September in DFW.

Advance payment makes everything easier on all sides. Confirmation of a set number of guests is key in all of this.

Just as with a small group, you take chances going with individuals all paying on a single check, IMO.

I think in the scenario stated above, separate checks or tabs would have to be requested ahead of time, which would ensure that no one gets stuck with a bill they did not generate. (Edited to include this information.)

Studley



[This message has been edited by studley (edited 09-07-2001).]

one that worked well for the pizza party in SF was to have one check for wine/beer and one for food/sodas..Since the entrees /pizzas were similarly priced the food bill worked out and those who didn't drink weren't stuck w/ a bar tab

I also focused on places that didn;t require a deposit or a guarantee..these places are harder to find but it minimizes what happens if there are no shows who don;t ever pay..keeping a tight RSVP listis a big help..

Using cheaper places also made it easier...as mjm was clear about, the focus was the people not the food...

Nothing beats a signed "no surprises" contract spelling out the total charges including all taxes and gratuities, and any no-show or quantity change provisions. This allows for accurate pre-payment by the guests. The organizer should also make it clear to all guests what your (the organizer's) cancelation and no-show policy is (including total forfeiture warning if applicable).

Most important in my experience is to make it clear to the restaurant or hotel when negotiating that this is a "no-host" event and guests will be pre-paying the exact amount to the organizer. Many restaurants and hotels sometimes assume there is a company pickeing up the tab and aren't too worried about slop. You don't want any surprises or hidden charges that you would have to pay for out of your own pocket. So communicate well with the property just what your event is.

In the event where the above was not followed, or somebody skips out without paying their bar tab, then it's always going to be a punt situation with some stress. Not much you can do about that, and you just have to work out things as best as you can.

Ultimatly however, it's the organizer's (the person who arranged things or was the "contact person" for the restaurant) final responsiblity.

If you decide to allow a "late comer" who doesn't have time to get their payment into you in advance, it must be made clear to them that if they don't show, they still may have to pay. If the person doesn't pay or drops off the face of the planet, I would say it's up to the organizer to foot the bill. They "approved" this person, after all.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 09-07-2001).]

Calculating the entire bill then dividing by the number of attendees, in my experience.. i.e. MJM pizza party in North Beach, does not work well. Many people ate and drank at the expense of others.. I ended up paying three times as much as I consumed. Planned meals paid in advance with a cash bar seems to me to be the most viable option when planning for a large group of individuals..

The chaos that acompanies bill time can be quite uncomfortable.


[This message has been edited by thommsf (edited 09-07-2001).]

While I can see your side, thommsf, I have all too often seen situations where everybody put in for what they "thought" they consumed and then found a huge balance at the end. (The total is always more than we "think" it will be.)

If there is no "prepay" it seems as though an equal division is the best way to go if you can't get searate checks. Of course, anyone who does something rash, like ordering an expensive bottle of wine or the most expensive meal on the menu, should take it him or herself to make sure that they pay more than an equal share. Actually, IMHO, good manners would prohibit ordering an unusually expensive meal in this situation without making some special payment arrangements.

I am really glad to see everyone openly sharing their thoughts on this subject.

Punki,

I have an idea. When flyertalkers arrive, immediately request X $$$. Then tell them why you're collecting this money, with refunds to follow...if any.
And if I were you, I think you should ask on the high side. This way you won't be stuck with the bill.

AWARD WINNING idea. (send leftover money to charity).

Have fun this weekend.

Dan

went to a gathering (of more than 50) and i liked what they did:

1. cash only
2. each guest was given a small piece of paper
3. write your name/s
4. write what you eat and drink
5. add tax and standard 15% tips
6. total
7. each table has a 'leader' that is responsible in collecting the 'correct' sum
8. after dinner, each 'leader' hands in their table's amount to the host
9. host pays restaurant

straight forward, saves time, in writing, each individual calculates their own bill, (no one pays for no one's excess)...
and if there are any discrepancies of the bill, very easy to locate the error

it turned out to be the most organized function i ever went to

Punki had initiated an excellent dialogue. I was banker for the SAN dinner, which definitely proved to be stressful. Yet FTers were wonderful, and gave me no trouble over the amount of money required for the dinner nor the need to prepay. So, why was it stressful?

1) San Diego is a beautiful city, and I wanted a restaurant that took advantage of some of that beauty, as well as having space for FTers to mix and mingle throughout the evening. Further, I wanted a restaurant which was relatively close to the hotels that attendees had chosen, simplifying transportation.

We looked at a number of restaurants; in the end, the only one that suited the criteria I had in mind (perhaps set too high?) had a private room for our group. (And I still feel it was the ideal environment, set in beautiful Balboa Park, with a private terrace for a bar that remained open throughout the dinner.)

2) Because we were in a private room, we had to guarantee a minimum number of guests. Based on the enthusiasm of people posting that they were coming, that didn't seem at all risky.

3) On black Monday, not quite two weeks before the event, I sent another in a series of emails to potential attendees, asking again for prepayment for the dinner. 17 people told me within 24 hours that they were unable to come. This dropped me below my minimum guarantee.

4) Checks were slow to arrive, drifting in up until 48 hours before the event. (I had requested a one week cutoff).

5) I continued to let people sign up, because I needed to make my guarantee. I was going to have to pay the money anyway, so I agreed to let a few people pay me on arrival. (And everyone did.) I could increase the booking over the minimum up to 24 hours in advance, but again I had to pay for whatever number of people I submitted - even if they dropped out on the day. (Only one did, and he had prepaid.)

So, what did I learn?
1) Apply a discount factor to those who post that they are coming. Don't think that everyone has the same enthuasiasm for my city that I do!!

2) Set up an account such as PayPal, so that people can pay electronically. markbach advised me to do this,and attempted to help me. I was in Europe on business for 3 weeks just before the FT weekend, and never figured out how to handle this. A number of people asked to pay electronically, and I would have had their money much more quickly.

If you accept electronic payment, check to see if there is a fee involved. One system charges 3%. You need to include that in the money required.

We had 42 at our dinner. At that size group, I don't know how to avoid a minimum booking requirement and a payment guarantee for all guests.

3) Have a cash bar. We did, and it worked well. People paid as they drank for what they drank.

I agree, CASH BAR!!!!! The last thing I want is for other flyertalkers to have to pay for my overindulgance.

Throwing a bash is a risky thing. Premex gives good advice for minimizing risk, but in the end there is a risk of throwing a bash.

As for deadbeats, just let me know who they are and I'll have some of my "subcontractor" friends pay them a visit...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thommsf:
[B]
The chaos that acompanies bill time can be quite uncomfortable.


sorry you felt that way..most folks seemed to be satisfied so I assumed it had worked...I think the price for food and drink (under $30/person) was reasonable given that we did accomodate some latecomers and that I did not have the resources to absorb anyone's no show..which rules out a pay in advance kind of thing...

I don't agree. I always put in my fair share and I'm unable to subsidize others' expsenses.

I agree that it isn't fun to subsidize someone else's food, especially when you are having soup and salad and they ae having lobster and Dom.

What I meant, essxjay, is that people often think, "Let's see, I just had a salad that was $10.00, so I'll put in $12.00".

That would be great if they hadn't had an iced tea for $3.00 and had thought about the mandatory 20% gratuity and the 8.8% tax that is enjoyed in some of our favorite travel spots.

That scenario puts their real total over $16.00 and leaves a negative of $4.00. Multiply that by 20 people and you end up $80.00 short without anybody realizing that they didn't contribute enough. For this reason, I think it is important to agree upon a solid payment method in advance and would like to have generally understood guidlines to reduce and funny feelings at our happy gatherings.

I think Belle's idea is good and I also think it is a good idea to pay in advance (with no refund for no shows) when a minimum is required.

What about buying bottles of wine? How do you divide the cost? Should everyone be aware of the cost before hand and agree or should the purchaser be responsible if there is no prior agreement?

Maybe someday I'll win the lottery and then I'll buy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 09-07-2001).]

Doing a flyertalk do is a learning experience no doubt. A few tricks I learned:

*hire a co-producer. I loved my co-producer for the Catman do 3. and some others who pitched in to make it special and divide up tasks.
*Forgot to add before: ESTABLISH the dinner amount way in advance. Guests can decide whether they can attend based on cost.
*COMPLETE PAYMENT WHEN REQUESTED TO CONFIRM YOU ARE ATTENDING. THIS WAY THE MONEY I SIN HOUSE.
*THIS IS GOING TO MY RULE FOR ANY DOS I DO: TOTAL CASH BAR. YOU WANT ALCOHOL BUY IT YOURSELF.
*Try to find a good but moderately priced restaurant. I had a few friends tell me the do's are getting expensive. I tried to keep my do to a reasonable amount.

Belle, I'm sorry. YOur suggestion might work for a light lunch or something but not for a major event.

1. some people like me don't carry cash.
2. Counting the money is going to be a problem. that's why prepaid payment is goign to work best.
3. people could LIE about what they write down on the papers.

Don't take offense belle. in some events yes your'swould work fine. NOT for MINE>


And keeping a list of the guests so no one "crashes" into the party. Luckily for CMD3 that didn't happen.

And any suggestion my big bruddar PRemEx put forward.

Just my two cents.


[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 09-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 09-07-2001).]

I quite understand your point, Punki. However, I also know what it's like to order $30 of food and be expected to chip in $55.