I am in favor of any system that works so that no one gets stuck with an unexpected overage. Having said that, it is almost impossible. I tend to eat more than others. I tend to drink about average. I tend to contribute what I *think* is a little more than I owe. However, some people don't drink anything and I don't want them to be subsidizing me. Most people eat less than I do, so splitting the check evenly isn't fair to them.

But, as I said, I like just about any system that the organizer thinks is fair.

@@well, in this case, isn't it only fair that each individual keeps track of what he/she eats and drinks and pay exactly just that?

how difficult is that?

if you had chicken salad and iced tea, person next to you had three beers, shrimp cocktail, filet mignon, chocolate soufflé and expresso, would you split the check?

more times than ever, the host has to oversee too many things already, is it too much to ask each participant to just be a little bit considerate and be responsible for his/her own bill?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Catman:

<1. some people like me don't carry cash.>

@@if the host makes clear that it is a CASH ONLY event in advance, will you still go?
well, carry a check then, if we were in the same party, i would cash it for you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

2. Counting the money is going to be a problem.

@@how so? each individual is only responsible for his/her own bill

<3. people could LIE about what they write down on the papers.>

@@huh? FLYERTALKERS, lie? (weight, height, age, miles portfolio, may be... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

please have faith, catman, i do not think one would deliberately lie what he/she had consumed, but only after the nth beer, n>5, temporarily lose memory, which is understandable....
but then we would just tell'em how much they owe, wouldn't we? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<..Don't take offense belle. in some events yes your'swould work fine. NOT for MINE>

@@ no, no offense... it is just that one has to have consideration for both the host (not being stuck with underpaid bill), also the individuals, who do not eat/drink as much as the others

overall, of course set-priced-menu-deadline enforced-cash-bar-prepaid event works best!

bottoms up to all the host and hostesses of Flyertalk events! cheers! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

It depends on the size of the event. At a smaller dinner (such as 12 people or less), it's pretty feasible to divide the check up informally. At a larger event, what seems to work best is:

- Agree on a set menu (with some options) at a set price. This helps the restaurant manage the meal and simplifies things.

- Take payment in advance (with PayPal).

At the event I organized last fall at Carta in SF, we didn't take payment in advance and got stiffed by two attendees who promised to attend but didn't show. As I had promised the restaurant a number of attendees (often required for a large party), the group chipped in (equally) to account for the missing two. I told myself at that time if I organized another similar event, I would take payment up front. There were similar (although even worse) problems at Catman Do 2.

Catman Do 3 was the best managed FlyerTalk event that I've been to so far with regard to money. The meal was a great value, there were nice choices for dinner, we had our own room, and we didn't have to hassle with money. I would shoot to do it exactly like that were I to organize another big FlyerTalk dinner.

As FT is growing we are now faced with a lot of attendees at the "get-togethers" and it makes it very hard for the 'host' to make arrangements for dinner for all of us who want to show up. I have been to a lot of the larger "get-togethers" and we have either had to sit apart at separate tables or sit at one long table and never get to talk with each other. And the 'host' usually get stiffed for extra charges due to people thinking that they have left enough money and don't!

I agree that sending a prepayment to the host is the best way. The host is doing all of the work and they usually get stuck with the extras! Drinks should be paid in cash by the comsumee at the table or the bar. This should not be put on the host to assume the responsiblity! Also this would aleviate the people who are so comsumed by miles that we end up with 68 CC's being presented to the server to pay for the bill.

We either have to stop promoting the big get-togethers (word of mouth only) or the people who want to show up have to start being responsible for their own bills! Also, cash only as many states cannot take checks for restaurant tabs.

Please folks, remember that the host is trying to make it easy on all of us to meet and have a great time in their city and we usually end up screwing the host out of money! Let's have fun at the meets and be kind to the people who are hosting us!

Invariably, when hosting any type of event for a group of people, many will feel that they overpaid, and that is often the case, since doing math over a restaurant table after a large dinner seems to be an impossible task!

The suggestion of a cash bar certainly takes out the possibility of the worst offense, paying for someone else's booze.

I have found that, in splitting the bill by entree, dessert, appetizer...the easiest mathematical way is to always round up, then when you reach each persons total, add 25 %.

This more than covers the tax (here in NY, at 8.5 %), a tip of more than 15% (lets face it, the waiters and waitresses usually work their tails off and are inevitably the ones who get stiffed on a group bill), and often results in an overage of money, at which point dollar bills can be returned to those who may have been slightly overcharged, certainly a more pleasant ending than having to dig deeper into the pockets.

The 25% is simple to figure (divide by 4) and never results in a deficit.

I'd just like to post a positive comment on the thread. I played banker to the Friday night dinner in San Diego 2 months ago.

This was not a pre-pay, and did not have a cash bar. I just ended up counting and tracking the money. Without any pestering, yelling, or loud noises, at the end, we had $2.00 more than the bill, which I left as an extra tip. Everyone was incredibly responsible in paying what they needed to pay.

I'm sure some people overpaid by $5,and some underpaid by $5, but it did work out -- with no fireworks, and, as far as I know, no hard feelings.

First of all, thanks to Punki for bringing this up... the fact that this has been a problem at some past events is like an FT dirty-little-secret that everybody knows about but nobody talks about.

Certainly the best method is the one Catman used at CMD 3... no uncertainty / no hassle.

Personally, if the check has to get split up on the spot, I dislike anything other than equal splits. The alternatives remind me too much of the blue-haired ladies at Schrafft's (dhammer53 and Catman will understand). My philosophy is that the inequities even out in the long run. Besides, if all you do is eat soup, what are you doing at a steak house anyway? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Most of all, a number of us have learned the following the hard way: If you're going to submit multiple credit cards, especially if several meals get combined on one card, the $amount$ that you tell the waiter to put on each card must be PRE-TIP!! Otherwise, you wind up having to put one meal's tip on another meal's card, and the math gets unbearable, what with none of us being in much shape to figure it all out at the time anyway, and various miscreants mercilessly giving each other a hard time over it (we freely rotate the roles in this regard). Make no mistake: Tell the waiter the pre-tip total! (then add the tip yourself in the normal manner, or just leave cash).

Footnote: squeakr: I thought the payment system for the pizza party in San Fran worked just fine.

[This message has been edited by RichG (edited 09-08-2001).]

That's a false dichotomy.

Let's suppose you join a group of FTers for dinner at a $14-25/entree-restaurant where the menu is argreeable to all ... and suppose there are 12-14 FTers.

If you order an entree costing, say, $10+/- below what others ordered and a pint of beer, why should you be expected to pay $25 more than what you've ordered?

I fail to see the sense in that.

I think if the group is smaller than 8 you can divide the bill evenly. In a group that small people realize that one person only had soup and they ate a lot more so they put in more money.

I have been to a few FT dinners (or lunches). The smallest was six of us in Vegas at a a Mexican restaurant in MGM. The entrees were similar in price and we were sharing pitchers of Margaritas so we divided the bill evenly.

At an LA luncheon I showed up reaaallly late along with a few other stragglers and we each calculated our own bills among the 4 or 5 that showed up late.

At my first gathering which was the SF Pizza party all 30 plus people split the tab evenly. At our table there were 5 of us, two of my friends and two new faces. Me and my two friends ordered a medium pizza that was about 16.00. The other two ordered a small. I would have been happy if we had a bill just to our table. I was very cautious about alcohol and ordered each of my drinks at the bar (counter) and paid cash. In the end the total per person was about 14.00 or 15.00 and some people brought one or two boxes of pizza home.

The SAN event was a prepay. I think prepay is the best method but last minute events or more casual events like the SF pizza party it wouldn’t work. In the more casual events perhaps a bill for each table. Then at each table everyone can put in their fare share.

Now I am off to the SF Rudi party were I have to collect the remaining money from attendees. ;-)

------------------
The world is a book, and for those who do not travel, read only a page.
-Saint Augustine

I had a great time at the SF Pizza get-together, but when my partner and I got home, we figured out that we had a small pizza between us and two cokes, and it cost us $40.00...

For New York pizza I'd pay that no problem, but SF Pizza needs to improve to be worth that! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It was a little on the high side, but .....

It was cheaper than airport food... and better than that burger in Business Class on United!

I think the Paypal idea is absolutely brilliant... People can pay a set amount ahead of time, and everyone can get miles using their credit cards if they want!

KevinB

The simple answer is to invite someone wealthy and generous to your affair. That's why I always invite Punki. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Wait a minute, aren't we all pretty much wealthy and generous? Comparitively speaking?

Of course, this doesn't work for big Get Togethers, but I always like the idea of meeting an FT'er for a meal or drinks when someone is on "business"! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Just give the bill to someone like me who hates cheapskates. I'll find out who shorted on their bill and post their name to FT.

I try to always pay more than my full share and only in times of exteme indulgence has this possibly not been true...then I just toss my AMEX into the ring.

Cheapskates...you suck.


Dorian

When I was a graduate student, this would come up all the time in groups of 7-8 people. We had a wide array of budgets and appetites, and it always was a mess. A couple of folks would usually just order an appetizer because they were just there for the company, and a couple of folks would order a full three courses and a beer.

One of my colleagues that didn't eat with us often was appalled at the absolutely necessary and good-natured haggling about the bill. He just that in his circle, people would just take turns throwing down their credit card down and pay for everybody, and that it all worked out in the end. If you always ate less, you didn't pay for the meal as often, and everybody understood. I asked what happened if somebody was a cheapskate and never paid. He said "well, we just wouldn't invite them any more...."

Now, I don't suggest that for FT gatherings, but we need to realize that there are a lot of cultural and financial issues at play. To me, overpaying by $5 or even $10 wouldn't be a big deal because I enjoy the social aspect of it, but more importantly I can afford it. Others may not be able to afford it, or just be opposed to it on principle.

For something shared like pizza, my graduate school group would say that people that knew they ate a lot should put in 150% plus drinks, and people who didn't eat much should put in 75% plus drinks. If you ate less than 75%, well you still participated in the conversation which was the main reason for gathering.

The organizer needs to post the rules up front early, unless everybody knows each other very well.