this topic is no where limited to FT events only, it happens with co workers, a bunch of the guys, you name it anywhere, the only thing that works in the long run, is the that those who short change day in and day out are the same ones and eventually get discovered. When we as a group (i.e. my friends or collegues) figure out these people we just tell them this is what you (cheapo) needs to pay... until this happens then its just a part of life and part of having these kind of events. I dislike these problems as well as the next person however I also usually understand that I may have to pay a bit more than I actually consumed.

For our small ANC do (there were only 6 of us) I asked everyone to bring cash and I made it a point to bring lots of small bills to assist in making change for people.

As many posters have pointed out, small groups are easier than large groups and not everyone likes to carry cash BUT it works well.

I am not so poor now and I don't have to watch every dollar I spend but when I was in college:

I always took cash (and made sure I had several small bills) to group dinners/nights out. I could always pay my fair share without ending up paying anymore.

Lisa,

Thanks for your nice comments. I've been to a ton of FT events and there is always some type of payment problem whenever the group exceeds about five. TrojanHorse is certainly correct though, it is not limited to FT. It is amazing how half a dozen accountants (that I work with) can't seem to settle a bill.

When MrLimo suggested Sagebrush Cantina for the get-together, I knew immediately this would be a good choice. The bar at the restaurant is very large and I intentionally wanted the group to mingle there for a while. Drink tabs, seem to be the major dispute when a shared bill occurs. Why not solve it by creating an environment where people would have to use a cash bar for a while. Then, by the time they were ready to eat, their drinking needs would be minimal.

If you go back through the thread on the gathering, I mentioned the restaurant told me on the phone they would want one check for the group of twenty. I replied this wouldn't suffice, and the person on the phone said maybe I could work it out with the waitress. When I arrived at the restaurant the hostess on duty repeated the one check mantra, and I asked to talk to the waitress that would serve us. It took only thirty seconds of talking to the waitress before she agreed that the multiple check set-up would be fine.

The conclusion to this exposition is place the peculiarities of the FT group ahead of the restaurant location decision. Rarely is the restaurant the reason for the gathering. Instead the reason for the gathering is fellowship.

I too as "host" want to have fun, and not stress the details. The Calabasas get-together allowed me the ability to do so.

Craig (6z)

I remembered this thread from before and wanted to suggest a site that I just found that may possibly solve most of the problems (of RSVP and prepayment anyway)

It is a site called evite.com which is a service that sets up an RSVP site for each event and prepayment can also be handled on the site through Paypal.

This may be a solution to many of the problems, of course it does nothing about excessive bar bills.

Another option, and one which will probably be implemented in the Mattman Do, is to ask the restaurant if they have a banquet menu. Many restaurants will have a menu with (say) three appetizers, four main courses, three desserts and coffee. Mix and match, the price is the same.

If your group is large enough (say 8+) many restaurants will allow you to order off the banquet menu in the main restaurant, avoiding no-show charges. It has been, in my experience, a great way to manage medium and large gatherings without anyone bickering over the bill.

One of the other tricks I have learned is to have someone at the get together who is good at doing math divide up the bill.

IN some of the Alley Cat events I just turn to Rich G and ask him to do the math. I don't think there has been a single time where there were problems with him doing the bill.

If I am hosting, I will try to watch for people who do not drink and take that into account when totally up the bill. It's not fair for someone who has water or PEPSI pay as much as someone who drinks a keg of beer.

But it's a difficult balancing act.

One of the main sources of the problem (IMHO) is that people forget or miscalculate tax. When everybody works out their own share, they'll look and see the cost of each item they ordered, forgetting the line(s) at the bottom that indicate the amount of sales tax.

They also forget about the tip.

I have found that the only way to manage when everybody orders what they like, instead of a menu fixe, is the following:

1. *Before ordering*, appoint somebody to work out the bill, rather than each person working out their own.

2. If people can't agree on this, suggest that after each person calculates what they owe (before tip), they say so, so that when it's all totaled up, everybody will know if something's gone wrong.

3. If they can't agree on *this* either, go home. I can guarantee the money won't come out right.

4. Try to agree on the size (percentage wise) of the tip. If everybody's agreed and one person is dividing the bill, he or she can announce each person's share including tip. If each person is calculating their own share, collect the money for the bill from everybody and each person leaves their own tip on the table.

5. Always round up. Once you start rounding down somebody's likely to round $44.82 down to $40 even.

6. If there's disagreement on who had what, ask the waiter or waitress. They know.

7. Nobody gets to leave until the bill is settled.

islandcub

not so in SF - most partiesover 6-8 require a prepay whether the banquet menu or osme other choice is used.

The issue that I have heard expressed is aroundalcohol and drinks. I drink very little and mr. squeakr doesn;t drink at all so we encounter this at other parties or work gatherings as well - short of the above option where there's a bar before dinner and it's easy to get your own drinks, some people have subsidized the drinking habits of others and that can add up here in SF.

One solution is to do what we did for mr. squeakr's 50th b-day - have the restaurant provide x amount of wine for x price , and anything else the guests pay for themselves.

Or as we have been doing in SFO - have breakfast/brunch like the dim sum event dgolds had a hand in, or the SFO breakfast w/ dhammer. No drinks and the meals were substantial and relatively cheap!

I agree that taxes and tip seem to get downsized or entirely forgotten.

I, personally, still don't get restaurant taxes to be able to judge anyone on what is their share. For instance, are drinks taxed? I know they aren't if ordered in a bar.

Also, I used to be a hostess in a restaurant. Every night, I would hear the servers' stories about how stupid and stingy some people could be. So, unless the service is terrible, I always tip 20%, and I'd rather be accused of tipping too much rather than too little. Unfortunately, I realize others don't feel the same way when I see the "extra" they leave as their share of the tip.

In various non FT get gatherings at a restaurant (some of which are stingy), I do the following to make tabulating the bill simple. I add the items, get a total. If the total is $7.55, I round up to $8. I then take 25% of the total ($2) & add it to the $8. Total is $10. In my state, the sales tax is approx 8% & the resulting tip is 17% (25% minus 8% tax = 17%). Since most restaurants have a mandatory 15% gratitity, the tip ends up being more generous (from 17% to 20% due to my rounding up to the nearest dollar). If the waitress gives separate bills, an extra $1 or $2 tip per person would be a nice gesture & greatly appreciated.

A fairly simple, but archane, idea is to have someone (or everyone) keep track of who bought what, at what price. If FTer A bought the rib eye steak at $23, two Heinekens at $4 apiece and a piece of Key Lime Pie at $5, it would be easiest on everyone if FTer A kept that minitab on himself at the time of ordering. The chaos usually follows when there are fifteen people, three people ordered this item, six ordered another, people round up, times the tax and everything usually comes up short at least a buck each. That is just how it happens!



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When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.

- Leonardo da Vinci

So, does anyone know what exactly is taxed?

I think its everything but alcoholic drinks, anybody know?

It would sure help when figuring out the tab.

Maybe it was German efficiency, but at last week's Dusseldorf Do it seemed to work fine and there were dozens of folks there. Bernie and Rudi just told folks a figure and we all paid. I think Bernie ended up with quite a bit over including a good tip on the Saturday night dinner so he ordered a round of Schnapps for us all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At another dinner folks had different things but Bernie said it worked out to so many Euros a person, were we happy to split it, and everyone seemed happy with that, and I don't think anyone was nickel and diming about who ate/drank what.

DUS was a hassle free weekend re payments, and that helped make it a great event. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif